Interesting article - young people, grooming and criminalisation
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This is interesting: Grooming survivors left with criminal records still being failed, BBC told https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly7jjq8nr1
Has read across for me to online offending space and grooming of young people who are then subject to being criminalised, particularly those who are 18 when arrested but were under 18 when offending. Some very vulnerable young people are being groomed into dark spaces (not just iioc but radicalism and terrorism, weapons and violence, race/ anti-women hate crime etc.). But I don't see anyone talking about this. It breaks my heart that no one is spotting the vulnerabilities and how this group of offenders is being handled, instead they're treated as adults and often split from their families due to bail conditions.
@lucyfaithfulfoundation - is this something you're doing or aware of others that are? I would support using our experience the lobbying of government to shine a light on this.
Has read across for me to online offending space and grooming of young people who are then subject to being criminalised, particularly those who are 18 when arrested but were under 18 when offending. Some very vulnerable young people are being groomed into dark spaces (not just iioc but radicalism and terrorism, weapons and violence, race/ anti-women hate crime etc.). But I don't see anyone talking about this. It breaks my heart that no one is spotting the vulnerabilities and how this group of offenders is being handled, instead they're treated as adults and often split from their families due to bail conditions.
@lucyfaithfulfoundation - is this something you're doing or aware of others that are? I would support using our experience the lobbying of government to shine a light on this.
I think this comes under the wider heading of internet safety for kids and there has been a lot of campaigning about that. It is on the news every other day.
There is a ban on social media for under 16s and possibly under 18s coming, if you believe the rumours and it will be announced next week.
More broadly it sounds like there are going to be lots of other restrictions which will affect everybody not just children. Sounds as if all adults are going to be treated as though they are children, unless they can prove otherwise by verifying their age.
If the manufacturers of smartphones do what the govt asks and turn on all the safety features that exist on phones already, rather than leaving it up to parents to choose whether or not to switch those features on, then it probably will have an impact.
There is a ban on social media for under 16s and possibly under 18s coming, if you believe the rumours and it will be announced next week.
More broadly it sounds like there are going to be lots of other restrictions which will affect everybody not just children. Sounds as if all adults are going to be treated as though they are children, unless they can prove otherwise by verifying their age.
If the manufacturers of smartphones do what the govt asks and turn on all the safety features that exist on phones already, rather than leaving it up to parents to choose whether or not to switch those features on, then it probably will have an impact.
It is indeed heartbreaking that under 18's are receiving sentences the same as adults. Many having waited years for their case to come to court, seeing them as an adult now stood in the dock as opposed the immature teen tjey were could make a difference to their sentence even if their age at the time is taken into account. It means that before they have begun their adult life it is curtailed and so many options taken from them. Their future education, job prospects travel. a normal relationship & family life. There is a vast difference between a grown adult commiting such offences and a immature teen. Of course there need to be consequences but ones that don't ruin a young life before it starts.
Dear Shfjaojsbth,
Thanks for flagging this - this is a really important and concerning issue to raise, and we appreciate you sharing the article. We’re not aware of any specific work on this at the moment, but we’ll make sure our media and communications team are aware of the article and the points you’ve raised so they can consider whether and how we might respond or contribute to the wider conversation.
We really appreciate you bringing this to our attention. Thank you again for sharing.
The Forum Team
Thanks for flagging this - this is a really important and concerning issue to raise, and we appreciate you sharing the article. We’re not aware of any specific work on this at the moment, but we’ll make sure our media and communications team are aware of the article and the points you’ve raised so they can consider whether and how we might respond or contribute to the wider conversation.
We really appreciate you bringing this to our attention. Thank you again for sharing.
The Forum Team
The statistics show that hardly any under 18s get taken to court. We do hear about a lot being arrested and that is an issue. However they are subject to a different charging regime than adults, so they are much less likely to be prosecuted. As for sentencing I do not believe there is any evidence to show that they do receive the exact same sentence as an adult. Every case is unique, but the judge should take their age at the time into account and that increases the chance of a reduced sentence.
In the very rare cases where they do get sentenced, there is provision in the rules for them to spend half the amount of time on the SOR, compared to what an adult would get. So again they are treated differently to adults.
There are two distinct issues raised here. One about bail and the other about the time it takes to get a charging decision. There is an argument for not imposing bail restrictions on under 18s and you could challenge the bail restrictions by going to court, because a judge may be more sympathetic than the police.
As for the time it takes, you could make an argument that under 18s should be moved to the front of the queue, although that just mean adults would have to wait even longer.
In the very rare cases where they do get sentenced, there is provision in the rules for them to spend half the amount of time on the SOR, compared to what an adult would get. So again they are treated differently to adults.
There are two distinct issues raised here. One about bail and the other about the time it takes to get a charging decision. There is an argument for not imposing bail restrictions on under 18s and you could challenge the bail restrictions by going to court, because a judge may be more sympathetic than the police.
As for the time it takes, you could make an argument that under 18s should be moved to the front of the queue, although that just mean adults would have to wait even longer.
I expect everyone who has posted in this section wishes those stats were true.
Edel - I'm talking about those who were under 18 at the time of alleged offending but who have turned 18 at point of arrest or during investigation. Stories on here would suggest there's not a huge amount of leniency at sentencing for them sadly despite the guidance. And they are certainly not treated any differently during investigation/ the process. Court process is same as for an older adult.
I also have views on blanket bans of social media for under 16s. I agree something needs to be done to protect young people from the dangers, but the ban doesn't address the awful spaces that are allowed to continue online and puts all the emphasis on children being restricted so they miss out on positives of social media. They will probably find ways around then ban as kids do and it will push dark spaces even further down. There's a lot of criticism and to me lets those perpetrators of dark spaces off the hook.
I also have views on blanket bans of social media for under 16s. I agree something needs to be done to protect young people from the dangers, but the ban doesn't address the awful spaces that are allowed to continue online and puts all the emphasis on children being restricted so they miss out on positives of social media. They will probably find ways around then ban as kids do and it will push dark spaces even further down. There's a lot of criticism and to me lets those perpetrators of dark spaces off the hook.
Not sure if you've seen the work of Dr. Clare Allely, a lecturer at Salford University? Her research & work is on the link between neuro diversity & boys/men going down the route of accessing IIOC & right wing extremism/ terrorism.
I agree about the poor treatment of under 18's.. however wasn't this article looking at it from another perspective.. Young girls that had been groomed and abused and then convicted as 'child prostitutes'.. having that record continue to affect their lives..?
Yes you're right it's different in that sense. The parallels I guess are that some of those who are/ were under 18 and are being criminalised for iioc offences were also groomed into dark online spaces and in some cases shared photos of themselves, under pressure from adults, so to an extent are also victims of abuse as well.
In any situation where the young person was groomed or blackmailed into sending pictures of themselves to an adult, they should not face prosecution, even if what they did was technically illegal.
We do hear of some on here, but presumably they would have to provide some proof or evidence of what happened, such as the contents of any chats which took place.
We also sometimes hear about vulnerable people being asked to download iioc on behalf of others. Again, if they have proof of this, it would be taken into account when deciding whether to charge them or not.
Part of the problem is that we only hear half the story on this forum. We get the initial post when the person has been arrested, but they do not always come back on the forum to tell us what happened in the end. I think that can skew our perception of how many of these cases are being treated.
We do hear of some on here, but presumably they would have to provide some proof or evidence of what happened, such as the contents of any chats which took place.
We also sometimes hear about vulnerable people being asked to download iioc on behalf of others. Again, if they have proof of this, it would be taken into account when deciding whether to charge them or not.
Part of the problem is that we only hear half the story on this forum. We get the initial post when the person has been arrested, but they do not always come back on the forum to tell us what happened in the end. I think that can skew our perception of how many of these cases are being treated.
