Experience with SS and SHPO
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this will be a long one so buckle in
I have been friends and in contact with my now partner for almost 15 years.
10 years ago he was arrested and pled guilty. The ins and outs of the conviction were a joke but the bottom line he was scared and pled guilty to sharing and receiving indecent images and 2 girls aged 12. He was sentenced to over 40 months and was released after 2.5 years. He then was subject to a SOR indefinitely (can apply to be removed after 15 years) and a SHPO, the SHPO includes these that are relevant to our current situation:
1) Without the express approval of Social Services for the area or the order of a judge exercising jurisdiction under the Children Act 1989, having any unsupervised contact of any kind with any female under the age of 16, other than: (i) such as is inadvertent and not reasonably avoidable in the course of lawful daily life or (ii) with the prior consent of the child's parent or legal guardian, who has prior knowledge of his convictions,
2) Without the express approval of Social Services for the area or the order of a judge exercising jurisdiction under the Children Act 1989,allowing any child under the age of 16 years into any domestic property (to include hotel rooms) or any semi-permanent structure (e.g. tent, caravan, boat, mobile home) where he may be living or residing temporarily.
I have 2 children aged 14 and 12 (female).
Our friendship naturally turned into a romantic relationship last year, he had met the children in social settings previously but more officially since beginning of this year. Despite the SHPO stating written permission from me is fine for unsupervised contact we purposely have only ever done supervised. He has also spent the night at my home on a few occasions in the last few months.
Beginning of July his offending manager turned up at my property unannounced following an anonymous call to police that he was staying here. He questioned the overnight contact which initially my partner denied as he panicked but then said he had and there is nothing stated in his green booklet or SHPO that states he cannot spend the night. His OM spoke with me and was satisfied he had been open about his conviction and the details (of course because we've been family friends for 15 years)
He received a caution and a fine, and his OM had no choice but to make a referral to Children's Services. My partner has been out of prison for 8 years, he has never been in any trouble at all, he has his yearly meeting that is the only contact he's had with them, he's done very well for himself and has a fantastic support network. He got this new OM beginning of this year who met him once and said there is absolutely no need for the SHPO and next year we are going to apply to get them off.
Whilst awaiting for him to receive his caution as his OM was on annual leave we stopped all contact with the children until we received further guidance. When he went in for his caution he asked lots of questions and his OM was absolutely fine with him being around me, the children, and in the home, he just can't stay overnight or for more than 12 hours, and just keep it supervised like you have been as a precaution until you hear from CS. He is extremely supportive of the relationship, he wants us to live a "normal" life and will do whatever he can to help facilitate that.
CS are ridiculous, 2 weeks after the referral I had still not heard anything, it took 6 phone calls to get through to a human being a CS and was told they had not received a referral at all. I called my partners OM and asked him to resend the referral as CS are claiming they haven't had it. Within 2 days a triage SW called me, asked for some more information, where did he sleep, had it always been supervised contact etc. He said his recommendation will be a section 17 child and family planning assessment, a SW will be allocated and you'll be contacted in the next few days. 4 days later the allocated SW calls me and informs me a strategy review meeting had already taken place earlier that week and they were now dealing with this as a section 47 child protection inquiry and arranged to come to the home for the assessment the following day. I had explained my children were unaware of his conviction and I would like to keep it that way, she told me the children are going to have to know at some point so either I can tell them sooner rather than later or they will need to disclose it to them. That evening I told my girls everything, literally everything. I didn't downplay the conviction, I didn't try and defend him, I was very matter of fact. They were stocked of course but they also acknowledge this happened when he was young and it had been a long time, he'd served his time, completed assessments, courses, and considered very low risk. They have a good relationship with him and they would like that to continue.
The SW came round, asked me everything i expected, I consistently said "by saying I have no concerns at this time that does not mean I don't acknowledge that there is, of course, a risk". I have a good support network who are all well aware of his conviction, yes maybe we should have just got clarification on the overnight stays but the wording of the SHPO does not state that, I wasn't arguing the point but admitting we should have clarified it and this is a massive learning curve. Before speaking with my children she said "this is already likely to be in section 47 child protection plan territory, I think it would be wise that you strongly start considering ending the relationship". She spoke with my children who confirmed everything I'd already said, expressed they have had no worries and they have a good relationship with him and enjoy having him around. She'd asked things like when he stopped overnight was there ever a situation where you got up to use the toilet in the night, they said no and we also have separate bathrooms. She also asked if their opinion of him had changed since finding out about his conviction they said no, she said if this was something you did not have a relationship with that had done this would it change your view of that person and they both said no.
She spoke with me again after to let me know what the children had said and explained their concerns were that although she agrees the wording of the SHPO is up for interpretation we both broke the law by allowing him to stay the night. She believes that for myself it is likely i misunderstood the conditions of the SHPO but that he would have had this drilled into him from his OM. (This isn't the case at all, he's had contact once a year for the last 7 years and the situation around children has never been something he's needed to consider, he was in a long term 9 year relationship without children)
As she was leaving I said I presume whilst this is ongoing you would like all contact to stop with the children, she said yes and I don't want him at the home. That's not a problem we are adhering to that of course.
She will now be on holiday and her student will be contacting school (as they had not attended the strat meeting), my mum, my best friend, his OM and when my actual SW returns she will be contacting my partner.
The last few weeks have by far been the most stressful and upsetting thing I have ever experienced. I have never had involvement with Police, CS or any such like in my life. I always knew this was something that could happen but the degree of it is something I very naively underestimated.
With the threat of CPP conference I contacted the best solicitor that specialises in child protection proceedings. They were extremely helpful at making me feel more positive about the situation, he has explained that a CPP can be an in court or out of court and he finds it extremely unlikely this would result in a PLO. He expressed his frustrations with CS need to jump straight to "eliminate ALL risk" rather than "manage proportionate risk" as they should, and i explained many management plans I would agree to, for example no contact with the children, he doesn't come to the home, we both can could complete training or assessments around sex offenders, their triggers, signs to look for etc. CS aren't yet aware of this but due to my previous jobs I have huge knowledge in safeguarding procedures with children and my partner spent years working in health and safety managing risk.
Am I crazy to fight this? I love my partner dearly, we have the most healthy relationship I have ever experienced despite the challenges we know we will face, my children love him dearly and sobbed after I told them they could no longer see him. I would argue CS need for me to disclose this to them and then restrict all contact has caused significant emotional harm. We have a fantastic family on both sides that are extremely supportive of our relationship.
Despite the of course heartbreaking decision I now face it's also not that simple. My partner currently lives with my mum (the children are not allowed there as per the SHPO), although I presumed CS knew this already it wasn't mentioned. He also runs a self employed business and i run all the social media advertising for this since he was too scared to have social media again since he was released. Ending the relationship whilst satisfying CS there is no risk (again, this can be argued as I could potentially just say that and then keep the relationship secret, I will not do this of course but it begs the question if CS will have no involvement once the relationship has ended then there are no professionals involved in the safeguarding of my children, since they've decided I am apparently not capable of managing this myself like I have for the last 15 years with no issues), it will also be putting my partner in a situation of losing accommodation and his livelihood, which will not satisfy his OM at all given that then means his risk to the public increases with "unstable" environments.
I will be calling the helpline on Monday and another lawyer for a second opinion, but ANY advice, experience, thoughts would be very valuable to me. It will never stop amazing me why the state question the level of re-offending in this country when every agency makes it impossible to live a normal life. It is a human right to live a private life and to have a family life.
I have been friends and in contact with my now partner for almost 15 years.
10 years ago he was arrested and pled guilty. The ins and outs of the conviction were a joke but the bottom line he was scared and pled guilty to sharing and receiving indecent images and 2 girls aged 12. He was sentenced to over 40 months and was released after 2.5 years. He then was subject to a SOR indefinitely (can apply to be removed after 15 years) and a SHPO, the SHPO includes these that are relevant to our current situation:
1) Without the express approval of Social Services for the area or the order of a judge exercising jurisdiction under the Children Act 1989, having any unsupervised contact of any kind with any female under the age of 16, other than: (i) such as is inadvertent and not reasonably avoidable in the course of lawful daily life or (ii) with the prior consent of the child's parent or legal guardian, who has prior knowledge of his convictions,
2) Without the express approval of Social Services for the area or the order of a judge exercising jurisdiction under the Children Act 1989,allowing any child under the age of 16 years into any domestic property (to include hotel rooms) or any semi-permanent structure (e.g. tent, caravan, boat, mobile home) where he may be living or residing temporarily.
I have 2 children aged 14 and 12 (female).
Our friendship naturally turned into a romantic relationship last year, he had met the children in social settings previously but more officially since beginning of this year. Despite the SHPO stating written permission from me is fine for unsupervised contact we purposely have only ever done supervised. He has also spent the night at my home on a few occasions in the last few months.
Beginning of July his offending manager turned up at my property unannounced following an anonymous call to police that he was staying here. He questioned the overnight contact which initially my partner denied as he panicked but then said he had and there is nothing stated in his green booklet or SHPO that states he cannot spend the night. His OM spoke with me and was satisfied he had been open about his conviction and the details (of course because we've been family friends for 15 years)
He received a caution and a fine, and his OM had no choice but to make a referral to Children's Services. My partner has been out of prison for 8 years, he has never been in any trouble at all, he has his yearly meeting that is the only contact he's had with them, he's done very well for himself and has a fantastic support network. He got this new OM beginning of this year who met him once and said there is absolutely no need for the SHPO and next year we are going to apply to get them off.
Whilst awaiting for him to receive his caution as his OM was on annual leave we stopped all contact with the children until we received further guidance. When he went in for his caution he asked lots of questions and his OM was absolutely fine with him being around me, the children, and in the home, he just can't stay overnight or for more than 12 hours, and just keep it supervised like you have been as a precaution until you hear from CS. He is extremely supportive of the relationship, he wants us to live a "normal" life and will do whatever he can to help facilitate that.
CS are ridiculous, 2 weeks after the referral I had still not heard anything, it took 6 phone calls to get through to a human being a CS and was told they had not received a referral at all. I called my partners OM and asked him to resend the referral as CS are claiming they haven't had it. Within 2 days a triage SW called me, asked for some more information, where did he sleep, had it always been supervised contact etc. He said his recommendation will be a section 17 child and family planning assessment, a SW will be allocated and you'll be contacted in the next few days. 4 days later the allocated SW calls me and informs me a strategy review meeting had already taken place earlier that week and they were now dealing with this as a section 47 child protection inquiry and arranged to come to the home for the assessment the following day. I had explained my children were unaware of his conviction and I would like to keep it that way, she told me the children are going to have to know at some point so either I can tell them sooner rather than later or they will need to disclose it to them. That evening I told my girls everything, literally everything. I didn't downplay the conviction, I didn't try and defend him, I was very matter of fact. They were stocked of course but they also acknowledge this happened when he was young and it had been a long time, he'd served his time, completed assessments, courses, and considered very low risk. They have a good relationship with him and they would like that to continue.
The SW came round, asked me everything i expected, I consistently said "by saying I have no concerns at this time that does not mean I don't acknowledge that there is, of course, a risk". I have a good support network who are all well aware of his conviction, yes maybe we should have just got clarification on the overnight stays but the wording of the SHPO does not state that, I wasn't arguing the point but admitting we should have clarified it and this is a massive learning curve. Before speaking with my children she said "this is already likely to be in section 47 child protection plan territory, I think it would be wise that you strongly start considering ending the relationship". She spoke with my children who confirmed everything I'd already said, expressed they have had no worries and they have a good relationship with him and enjoy having him around. She'd asked things like when he stopped overnight was there ever a situation where you got up to use the toilet in the night, they said no and we also have separate bathrooms. She also asked if their opinion of him had changed since finding out about his conviction they said no, she said if this was something you did not have a relationship with that had done this would it change your view of that person and they both said no.
She spoke with me again after to let me know what the children had said and explained their concerns were that although she agrees the wording of the SHPO is up for interpretation we both broke the law by allowing him to stay the night. She believes that for myself it is likely i misunderstood the conditions of the SHPO but that he would have had this drilled into him from his OM. (This isn't the case at all, he's had contact once a year for the last 7 years and the situation around children has never been something he's needed to consider, he was in a long term 9 year relationship without children)
As she was leaving I said I presume whilst this is ongoing you would like all contact to stop with the children, she said yes and I don't want him at the home. That's not a problem we are adhering to that of course.
She will now be on holiday and her student will be contacting school (as they had not attended the strat meeting), my mum, my best friend, his OM and when my actual SW returns she will be contacting my partner.
The last few weeks have by far been the most stressful and upsetting thing I have ever experienced. I have never had involvement with Police, CS or any such like in my life. I always knew this was something that could happen but the degree of it is something I very naively underestimated.
With the threat of CPP conference I contacted the best solicitor that specialises in child protection proceedings. They were extremely helpful at making me feel more positive about the situation, he has explained that a CPP can be an in court or out of court and he finds it extremely unlikely this would result in a PLO. He expressed his frustrations with CS need to jump straight to "eliminate ALL risk" rather than "manage proportionate risk" as they should, and i explained many management plans I would agree to, for example no contact with the children, he doesn't come to the home, we both can could complete training or assessments around sex offenders, their triggers, signs to look for etc. CS aren't yet aware of this but due to my previous jobs I have huge knowledge in safeguarding procedures with children and my partner spent years working in health and safety managing risk.
Am I crazy to fight this? I love my partner dearly, we have the most healthy relationship I have ever experienced despite the challenges we know we will face, my children love him dearly and sobbed after I told them they could no longer see him. I would argue CS need for me to disclose this to them and then restrict all contact has caused significant emotional harm. We have a fantastic family on both sides that are extremely supportive of our relationship.
Despite the of course heartbreaking decision I now face it's also not that simple. My partner currently lives with my mum (the children are not allowed there as per the SHPO), although I presumed CS knew this already it wasn't mentioned. He also runs a self employed business and i run all the social media advertising for this since he was too scared to have social media again since he was released. Ending the relationship whilst satisfying CS there is no risk (again, this can be argued as I could potentially just say that and then keep the relationship secret, I will not do this of course but it begs the question if CS will have no involvement once the relationship has ended then there are no professionals involved in the safeguarding of my children, since they've decided I am apparently not capable of managing this myself like I have for the last 15 years with no issues), it will also be putting my partner in a situation of losing accommodation and his livelihood, which will not satisfy his OM at all given that then means his risk to the public increases with "unstable" environments.
I will be calling the helpline on Monday and another lawyer for a second opinion, but ANY advice, experience, thoughts would be very valuable to me. It will never stop amazing me why the state question the level of re-offending in this country when every agency makes it impossible to live a normal life. It is a human right to live a private life and to have a family life.
Hi,
the overnight breach is probably failing to notify as per SOR requirements rather than the SHPO. SOR requirements include notifying when you are around a child for more than 12 hours and notifying and providing an address that you spend 7 or more nights a year.
I would say you from a ss perspective you would be in a better position if you had a safety plan documented. Due to your partner being a long term family friend I think ending the relationship is a very short sighted suggestion by the sw since the children would still come into contact with him at events etc.
In your situation I'd write up a safety plan for contact and document what your children currently know about the offences, sex, abuse, privacy and pornography. It's not ideal to be in this position and it is incredibly frustrating when it feels like your ability to parent is in question. At the time of ss coming into my life my oldest was almost 18. I don't think you need to seek legal advice at this stage because I don't think it would fall into anything more than child in need assessment. Depending on what area you are in you might be able to find the thresholds for each stage of action by ss. I found them for my area by looking up my local authority children's services page. It might help you to feel more confident xxx
the overnight breach is probably failing to notify as per SOR requirements rather than the SHPO. SOR requirements include notifying when you are around a child for more than 12 hours and notifying and providing an address that you spend 7 or more nights a year.
I would say you from a ss perspective you would be in a better position if you had a safety plan documented. Due to your partner being a long term family friend I think ending the relationship is a very short sighted suggestion by the sw since the children would still come into contact with him at events etc.
In your situation I'd write up a safety plan for contact and document what your children currently know about the offences, sex, abuse, privacy and pornography. It's not ideal to be in this position and it is incredibly frustrating when it feels like your ability to parent is in question. At the time of ss coming into my life my oldest was almost 18. I don't think you need to seek legal advice at this stage because I don't think it would fall into anything more than child in need assessment. Depending on what area you are in you might be able to find the thresholds for each stage of action by ss. I found them for my area by looking up my local authority children's services page. It might help you to feel more confident xxx
This is great advice, thank you!
The breach was because they have classed it as "temporary residing", there are no clear cut rules around how many times you have to stay somewhere for it to class as that, it was under 7 nights and we were careful it didn't exceed 12 hours, we haven't disputed the breach purely because this situation was new to the both of us and it's not worth the argument with them
The SW has already said this is in CPP territory, they've made their minds up before even finishing the assessment. The solicitor I spoke to already was very helpful, it was more just clarifying things and hearing their view on it.
I will definitely try and find what the thresholds are, that's a great idea!! I am currently working on a full dossier of everything so this will be helpful! X
The breach was because they have classed it as "temporary residing", there are no clear cut rules around how many times you have to stay somewhere for it to class as that, it was under 7 nights and we were careful it didn't exceed 12 hours, we haven't disputed the breach purely because this situation was new to the both of us and it's not worth the argument with them
The SW has already said this is in CPP territory, they've made their minds up before even finishing the assessment. The solicitor I spoke to already was very helpful, it was more just clarifying things and hearing their view on it.
I will definitely try and find what the thresholds are, that's a great idea!! I am currently working on a full dossier of everything so this will be helpful! X
I think the sw has said that to scare you into ending the relationship. There's no way that supervised contact with someone deemed low risk meets CPP thresholds without some serious embellishment on the part of the sw. Something I will say is that it would be better from a risk perspective if he could get somewhere to live that's separate from you and your extended family.
Anything you put together for ss needs to be completely child focused, they aren't interested in the impact no contact has on him, his living situation or rehabilitation needs. I'll go through posts and find a list of books I got through a course that may be helpful for keeping the conversation open between you and your children. I'll add it to the thread as a separate comment xxx
Anything you put together for ss needs to be completely child focused, they aren't interested in the impact no contact has on him, his living situation or rehabilitation needs. I'll go through posts and find a list of books I got through a course that may be helpful for keeping the conversation open between you and your children. I'll add it to the thread as a separate comment xxx
NSPCC have a guide to talking about difficult topics.
Here is the list of books, make sure the parents read them before they try to start the conversation as they may not be appropriate in this situation.
1. An Exceptional Children’s Guide to Touch – Hunter Manasco (no age specified, but for young children, especially those with special needs)
2.Some Secrets Should Never Be Kept – Jayneen Sanders (3+)
3.It’s My Body – Lory Freeman (3–6 years)
4.Your Body Belongs to You – Cornelia Spelman (3–6 years)
5.My Body Belongs to Me – Jill Starishevsky (3–10 years)
6.Tell Somebody it Happened to Me – Nancy Flowers (4–10 years)
7.Come and Tell Me (Be sensible—and safe) – Helen Hollick (5–10 years)
8.Feeling Happy Feeling Safe (A safety guide for young children) – Michelle Elliott(6–11 years)
9. A Very Touching Book (for little people and for big people) – Jan Hindman (8–12 years)
10. Let’s Talk About Sex (Growing up, changing bodies, sex and sexual health) – Robie H. Harris (Pre-teens and teenagers)
Only number 10 is age appropriate for your children but I've left it as a whole list for others who may need resources for opening up conversations xxx
Here is the list of books, make sure the parents read them before they try to start the conversation as they may not be appropriate in this situation.
1. An Exceptional Children’s Guide to Touch – Hunter Manasco (no age specified, but for young children, especially those with special needs)
2.Some Secrets Should Never Be Kept – Jayneen Sanders (3+)
3.It’s My Body – Lory Freeman (3–6 years)
4.Your Body Belongs to You – Cornelia Spelman (3–6 years)
5.My Body Belongs to Me – Jill Starishevsky (3–10 years)
6.Tell Somebody it Happened to Me – Nancy Flowers (4–10 years)
7.Come and Tell Me (Be sensible—and safe) – Helen Hollick (5–10 years)
8.Feeling Happy Feeling Safe (A safety guide for young children) – Michelle Elliott(6–11 years)
9. A Very Touching Book (for little people and for big people) – Jan Hindman (8–12 years)
10. Let’s Talk About Sex (Growing up, changing bodies, sex and sexual health) – Robie H. Harris (Pre-teens and teenagers)
Only number 10 is age appropriate for your children but I've left it as a whole list for others who may need resources for opening up conversations xxx
