Not guilty plea
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Hi all,
just wandering if anyone has entered a not guilty plea and how it turned out?
OH being charged with a communication from an over 18's chat site, the person (police decoy) said they were 13 but OH didn't believe it and requested a photo, once he received it he ended the conversation as he thought the person looked young (not 13 possibly 16/17) they continued to message him which he didn't reply too.
solicitor said in America it couldn't be charged as it's classed as entrapment but unfortunately doesn't help here.
Our read is entertaining not guilty is a big gamble as to what a jury/ judge would believe and then he'd lost any sentence reduction
just in a minefield of all the potential outcomes either way but haven't seen anything about anyone actually pleading not guilty
just wandering if anyone has entered a not guilty plea and how it turned out?
OH being charged with a communication from an over 18's chat site, the person (police decoy) said they were 13 but OH didn't believe it and requested a photo, once he received it he ended the conversation as he thought the person looked young (not 13 possibly 16/17) they continued to message him which he didn't reply too.
solicitor said in America it couldn't be charged as it's classed as entrapment but unfortunately doesn't help here.
Our read is entertaining not guilty is a big gamble as to what a jury/ judge would believe and then he'd lost any sentence reduction
just in a minefield of all the potential outcomes either way but haven't seen anything about anyone actually pleading not guilty
Thanks for the reply.
we have got the transcript from the text conversation but that is all the evidence as far as we are aware.
we had a plea hearing last Friday but there are 3 charges, one not written in law according to thd judge which his barrister agrees with so they have got until the start of October to resubmit them and will have another meeting with his barrister before his next plea hearing late October.
just want to be as prepared as possible for when we need to make the decision on his plea, I can't see him being able to go not guilty as the conversation is in black and white and the only defence he has is he was on an over 18 site and as soon as he actually thought it was someone younger (when the picture was received) he ended the chat
we have got the transcript from the text conversation but that is all the evidence as far as we are aware.
we had a plea hearing last Friday but there are 3 charges, one not written in law according to thd judge which his barrister agrees with so they have got until the start of October to resubmit them and will have another meeting with his barrister before his next plea hearing late October.
just want to be as prepared as possible for when we need to make the decision on his plea, I can't see him being able to go not guilty as the conversation is in black and white and the only defence he has is he was on an over 18 site and as soon as he actually thought it was someone younger (when the picture was received) he ended the chat
I can't remember the exact charges but I think it was one regarding incite and one about sexual exploitation, the third was just an exert from the conversation which is why I think the judge has said it can't be entered as a charge and needs to be changed.
can I ask what your outcome was and how you dealt with SS and access? At the moment he is living at his parents and can have access there and we are in discussions with him having done limited access at the family home but it's like hitting a brick wall, I'm trying to make sure they know I take it seriously (I have enrolled on a safeguarding course that I think you recommended in a previous post) but at the same time want us to eventually return to a somewhat normal family household.
thank you again for helping!
can I ask what your outcome was and how you dealt with SS and access? At the moment he is living at his parents and can have access there and we are in discussions with him having done limited access at the family home but it's like hitting a brick wall, I'm trying to make sure they know I take it seriously (I have enrolled on a safeguarding course that I think you recommended in a previous post) but at the same time want us to eventually return to a somewhat normal family household.
thank you again for helping!
Hi lee1969,
Way was the protecting parenting course if you don't mind me asking?
Way was the protecting parenting course if you don't mind me asking?
Personally I struggle with these entrapment cases when they start on adult hookup sites. I don't see the public interest, and I worry that by stating they are like 13 halfway through the conversation could actually make someone who had never thought about a child in that way, start to to think children would be interested in them. I'm doubtful that a real 13 year old would act the same in a conversation as an adult. But no-one can know for sure. Sadly the media reports or even the courts often do not hear at what point the age was mentioned, and even whether or not the site was an adult hookup site. Maybe more so if a not guilty plea is entered.
As much as you can say someone looking at an image on the internet is "creating a market", the same logic also applied to adults who pretend to be children on adult hookup sites. Much more so in my view.
I'm sure anyone who really was underage would just say they were of legal age, and only the adults pretending to be children would actually state they were like 13. But that's just my theory.
If he pleads guilty it's likely people will just take that at face value. It's a dilemma regarding the reduction in sentence for an early gulity plea. Judges have a fairly wide range in what they sentence, they can choose prison or suspended at their own discretion. They are supposed to reduce a sentence by a certain amount, but of course humans often do not work that way. It's anyones guess how much if any weight they put on a guilty plea. I see it as more of a way to encourage guilty pleas regardless of guilt.
As much as you can say someone looking at an image on the internet is "creating a market", the same logic also applied to adults who pretend to be children on adult hookup sites. Much more so in my view.
I'm sure anyone who really was underage would just say they were of legal age, and only the adults pretending to be children would actually state they were like 13. But that's just my theory.
If he pleads guilty it's likely people will just take that at face value. It's a dilemma regarding the reduction in sentence for an early gulity plea. Judges have a fairly wide range in what they sentence, they can choose prison or suspended at their own discretion. They are supposed to reduce a sentence by a certain amount, but of course humans often do not work that way. It's anyones guess how much if any weight they put on a guilty plea. I see it as more of a way to encourage guilty pleas regardless of guilt.
Completely agree with you Zack, if he had been searching for young people I would be more accepting of his charges and the treatment from SS and police but he was on an over 18 site wrongly assuming under 18's would not use it, yes he should have ended the chat when they said they were 13 but he said the people on the site regularly role play different situations which he thought was what they were doing, once he received a picture he stopped the chat and they continued to message him to 'entice' him back to i believe encriminate himself more.
Lee we have looked into the law regarding if he was encouraged to commit the crime, which he wouldn't have without them, but as you say it's very difficult to prove
I also agree that giving a lesser sentance for pleading guilty is unfair as like us when you are 50/50 what to do it makes it very difficult to plead not guilty with the risks of a higher sentence. It seems to me it's easy for the police to get their convictions when actually some people could potentially be found not guilty but won't risk a trial
Lee we have looked into the law regarding if he was encouraged to commit the crime, which he wouldn't have without them, but as you say it's very difficult to prove
I also agree that giving a lesser sentance for pleading guilty is unfair as like us when you are 50/50 what to do it makes it very difficult to plead not guilty with the risks of a higher sentence. It seems to me it's easy for the police to get their convictions when actually some people could potentially be found not guilty but won't risk a trial
Thanks again Lee
yes the transcript of the chat shows 3 messages after he stopped responding, along the lines of why aren't you replying, don't you like me, where are you. Which to me is them trying to encourage him to commit a crime (or commit a further crime)
we have appointed a solicitor but until they have the charges we are stuck waiting, the judge has advised the police they need to put the amended charges in by start of October for his plea hearing end of October they have also asked them to look into the site to see if it is specified it is for over 18's only (which it does) so will have to see what the barrister advises once we have the correct charges
yes the transcript of the chat shows 3 messages after he stopped responding, along the lines of why aren't you replying, don't you like me, where are you. Which to me is them trying to encourage him to commit a crime (or commit a further crime)
we have appointed a solicitor but until they have the charges we are stuck waiting, the judge has advised the police they need to put the amended charges in by start of October for his plea hearing end of October they have also asked them to look into the site to see if it is specified it is for over 18's only (which it does) so will have to see what the barrister advises once we have the correct charges