Update and maybe some useful info
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Ok, a long one but I thought I would share just in case it could help:
First of all let me make this clear, this is not a "how to get off with it post", this is our story:
my partner was charged with 1 extreme obscene image (animal porn) and 6 cat c child images of a pseudo nature (manga drawings of a older teenage child drawn in a sexual manner).
Now the police took over 10 devices from the property after my partner was part of a larger group chat on KIK which turned dark, he was cleared of any wrong doing in that but they still checked his devices.
They found the images on one external hard drive, in the recycle bin, from 6 years ago.
We did not have any info/detail shared until 2 days before court, our initial solicitor wanted him to plead guilty as images in a recycle bin are still "in possession"
I work in IT and The first thing I said was "there is no recycle bin on an exernal hard drive", now technically I am wrong, there is, but to access the file you need to have operating system knowledge to access the hidden system files where the hard drive recycle folder is kept.l, he did not and I had to google it despite working in software development for over 20 years!
Also the folder name for the pictures did not indicate what they were, it was an artists name (my partner is an artist), the image numbers given also indicated that these 6 were amongst a much larger collection of images.
now I need to point out, none of this was made clear by either the forensic report or by our original solicitor, we got a new solicitor the day before court and pushed for this to be looked into further.
the second solicitor we saw was on the ball, at the first magistrates hearing he asked for a delay for further time before entering a plea as:
1) the recycle bin needed system admin access
2) as the images looked to be as part of a bigger batch there was no evidence they had been seen
3) there was no evidence presented that they had been looked at
4) there was no evidence they had been searched for
5) there was no evidence the folder had been accessed since they had been deleted (or ever)
The magistrate gave 9 additional days
He was back in court last week where the prosecutor asked for an additional week which was granted
In the mean time we have racked up a few thousand in solicitor fees and somehow, avoided any press, but, today we got the news that all charges have been dropped!
I am sharing this because it has made me think how many people have just agreed to plead guilty to get a more lenient sentence at the advice of council?
read the reports, it's not always an easy read I grant you but you need to go over everything yourself, question, challenge and most importantly find someone who you are comfortable with!
we could not get legal aid but our solicitor is also a legal aid councillor, so it's not a case of we could afford a better one, don't settle, even with legal aid you can shop about x
First of all let me make this clear, this is not a "how to get off with it post", this is our story:
my partner was charged with 1 extreme obscene image (animal porn) and 6 cat c child images of a pseudo nature (manga drawings of a older teenage child drawn in a sexual manner).
Now the police took over 10 devices from the property after my partner was part of a larger group chat on KIK which turned dark, he was cleared of any wrong doing in that but they still checked his devices.
They found the images on one external hard drive, in the recycle bin, from 6 years ago.
We did not have any info/detail shared until 2 days before court, our initial solicitor wanted him to plead guilty as images in a recycle bin are still "in possession"
I work in IT and The first thing I said was "there is no recycle bin on an exernal hard drive", now technically I am wrong, there is, but to access the file you need to have operating system knowledge to access the hidden system files where the hard drive recycle folder is kept.l, he did not and I had to google it despite working in software development for over 20 years!
Also the folder name for the pictures did not indicate what they were, it was an artists name (my partner is an artist), the image numbers given also indicated that these 6 were amongst a much larger collection of images.
now I need to point out, none of this was made clear by either the forensic report or by our original solicitor, we got a new solicitor the day before court and pushed for this to be looked into further.
the second solicitor we saw was on the ball, at the first magistrates hearing he asked for a delay for further time before entering a plea as:
1) the recycle bin needed system admin access
2) as the images looked to be as part of a bigger batch there was no evidence they had been seen
3) there was no evidence presented that they had been looked at
4) there was no evidence they had been searched for
5) there was no evidence the folder had been accessed since they had been deleted (or ever)
The magistrate gave 9 additional days
He was back in court last week where the prosecutor asked for an additional week which was granted
In the mean time we have racked up a few thousand in solicitor fees and somehow, avoided any press, but, today we got the news that all charges have been dropped!
I am sharing this because it has made me think how many people have just agreed to plead guilty to get a more lenient sentence at the advice of council?
read the reports, it's not always an easy read I grant you but you need to go over everything yourself, question, challenge and most importantly find someone who you are comfortable with!
we could not get legal aid but our solicitor is also a legal aid councillor, so it's not a case of we could afford a better one, don't settle, even with legal aid you can shop about x
Hi Stunned,
Thank you for sharing your story - it is very reassuring to hear. I often think how many people plead guilty for the 1/3 reduction in sentencing without challenging the evidence.
Can I ask how or what your partner said during interviews? Did he give "no comment"? I will want to review the evidence for my partner (when it arrives, we are still early on) but he has already admitted guilt during his first interview stating that he recieved IIOC but did not intentially go looking for it. Does this have any bearing when putting in a plea?
Thanks.
Thank you for sharing your story - it is very reassuring to hear. I often think how many people plead guilty for the 1/3 reduction in sentencing without challenging the evidence.
Can I ask how or what your partner said during interviews? Did he give "no comment"? I will want to review the evidence for my partner (when it arrives, we are still early on) but he has already admitted guilt during his first interview stating that he recieved IIOC but did not intentially go looking for it. Does this have any bearing when putting in a plea?
Thanks.
Good for you for fighting! Sadly I'm not too surprised. I suspect that they do this on purpose. There is a massive problem with confirmation bias, they investigate the lines of enquiry that are advantageous to the prosecution. And gloss over the elements that may aid a defence. The press will never report on the police and forensic officers names involved in these cases. If they drop a case like yours, I very much doubt they go and look to see if similar mistakes happened in other cases. The officers just do the same again and again. There's a fine line between incompetence and purposely misrepresenting the evidence to gain such a conviction.
In my partners case, he was given the "evidence" the day before he had to plead, by then it was too late to gain additional advice. He pled guilty, because he thought that would stop a prison sentence, he panicked, it is a stressful time after all. They are well aware of this, I query if that's why they release their reports at the last minute, and then state that you will get less of a sentence if you plead guilty now. There is a lot of psychology that is used to encourage a guilty plea, as opposed to finding out the truth. They had written their reports months ago, but chose only to give him this crucial information at the last minute. The ambiguity of the language was worrying, considering how life changing these cases are. There's just no accountability. In any other industry they would relook at all the other cases that the investigator or forensics worked on, to see if similar mistakes had happened. I wonder if they just don’t see it as a mistake, and believe that it is up to you to pay and prove your innocence. Before my partners case I had respect for our judicial system, now I question just how many of these convictions are safe. Sadly a guilty plea is extremely difficult to fight in the Court of Appeal.
They should at the very least allow the defence to have a list of all the cases that have been dropped once the evidence had been challenged. That's what open justice really is.We should all know the track record of the investigators involved.
In my partners case, he was given the "evidence" the day before he had to plead, by then it was too late to gain additional advice. He pled guilty, because he thought that would stop a prison sentence, he panicked, it is a stressful time after all. They are well aware of this, I query if that's why they release their reports at the last minute, and then state that you will get less of a sentence if you plead guilty now. There is a lot of psychology that is used to encourage a guilty plea, as opposed to finding out the truth. They had written their reports months ago, but chose only to give him this crucial information at the last minute. The ambiguity of the language was worrying, considering how life changing these cases are. There's just no accountability. In any other industry they would relook at all the other cases that the investigator or forensics worked on, to see if similar mistakes had happened. I wonder if they just don’t see it as a mistake, and believe that it is up to you to pay and prove your innocence. Before my partners case I had respect for our judicial system, now I question just how many of these convictions are safe. Sadly a guilty plea is extremely difficult to fight in the Court of Appeal.
They should at the very least allow the defence to have a list of all the cases that have been dropped once the evidence had been challenged. That's what open justice really is.We should all know the track record of the investigators involved.
Stunned - that is so good to hear. We are in the process of challenging one of my husbands charges as it was litterly changed less than 24 hours before his plea hearing. He of course pled not guilty so we are expecting it to go to court with a jury. Our solicitor and barrister cannot believe the change of the charge, and have tried to assure us (as much as they can at this point) that it won't stand up in court.
All along my husband has said he will of course plead guilty to the correct charges but will not plead guilty to a very ambiguous charge.
All along my husband has said he will of course plead guilty to the correct charges but will not plead guilty to a very ambiguous charge.