Number of images
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I have bee reading the denial section of stop it now website and it’s really helpful in understanding why someone feels they need to play down the situation.
i am just wondering what your partners/ sons have said about the numbers of images. And why do you feel they need to catalogue them.
my ex husband is still stating 200 images and who knows how many will be found?
i am just wondering what your partners/ sons have said about the numbers of images. And why do you feel they need to catalogue them.
my ex husband is still stating 200 images and who knows how many will be found?
I was told ‘a CD’s worth’ which was a bit like ‘as long as a piece of string’! I was also told it had been going on for a year and images were of teenagers...that all gradually changed over time and true extent only recently came out with another blow at court. My feeling was ‘you’ve been caught, now stop living the lie and start telling the truth’ but unfortunately that has all just been drip fed to me over the past 10 months to the point I don’t even ask him anything any more as know I can’t trust what he says.
Rosa
this is how I feel too, I can’t trust him. I still like him and he is my friend but in terms of having an authentic relationship that’s over.
Its been very enlightening reading through the website yesterday, I know there layers and layers of shame and he has to uncover. I am beginning to see it’s his journey. Though I am obviously interested as I spent 10 years with this man, who I hardly know. Yes he is great with my daughter and he is respectful that I can’t be in a relationship. I still see him once a week as support contact with my daughter. And sometimes I forget there is this other side to him, one that causes me deep pain.
what a complex life we life and what a complex organ the brain is.
this is how I feel too, I can’t trust him. I still like him and he is my friend but in terms of having an authentic relationship that’s over.
Its been very enlightening reading through the website yesterday, I know there layers and layers of shame and he has to uncover. I am beginning to see it’s his journey. Though I am obviously interested as I spent 10 years with this man, who I hardly know. Yes he is great with my daughter and he is respectful that I can’t be in a relationship. I still see him once a week as support contact with my daughter. And sometimes I forget there is this other side to him, one that causes me deep pain.
what a complex life we life and what a complex organ the brain is.
10 months on Rosa, does it get easier? I am only 3 months in, I think I am going to get a shock at court too. I have told him I am going so why not just tell the truth and get it over with.
Hello Bethlou23,
At ten months there is still good and bad days. After the initial shock and flurry of activity from police and social services, things settled into a routine of weekly visits from my children’s Dad, monthly social worker visits and 10 weekly meeting with my ex, the SW and head of my children’s school. It all became a new normal. It was also a time when I put my head in the sand because no-one was telling me anything and tried to just get though each day. Then my ex got his charge sheet and I then started to find out more of what he had done and then court happened and I was a complete mess again worrying about press, my address being mentioned and my ex going to prison and having to tell my children what has happened. At court all details came out so was the final blow but then the advantage was address wasn’t mentioned, press weren’t there and everything got rescheduled for magistrates again for 6 weeks later! If anything I have felt quite chipper since then! My life now is certainly a new normal but it is working! I honestly feel like superwoman some days when I get out of the house with the washing machine and dishwasher on, lunches in bags, fresh clothes in everyone and everyone is happy. Not all days are like that and some days I feel like I am not coping, an a rubbish mum and think i’ll break down at any minute but I guess it is all part of the process of gradually moving forward. On the whole though I am stupidly proud of how well I have managed given the circumstances. I am fueled by anger for my ex that I will one day tackle but not now. At times I feel immensely trapped by everything - the duty to still be a good and normal mum to my kids, to hold down a job so that we can pay the mortgage and live, to put a face on and support others at work, to be strong for those that need me to be and to put a smile on my face. And then there are the chocolate orange and pyjamas in the sofa evenings when I watch something crap on Netflix and cry. Does that give you hope? I don’t know. I don’t necessarily feel positive for the future but I feel positive for today and might also tomorrow and on a day by day basis that is enough. And sometimes enough has to suffice.
At ten months there is still good and bad days. After the initial shock and flurry of activity from police and social services, things settled into a routine of weekly visits from my children’s Dad, monthly social worker visits and 10 weekly meeting with my ex, the SW and head of my children’s school. It all became a new normal. It was also a time when I put my head in the sand because no-one was telling me anything and tried to just get though each day. Then my ex got his charge sheet and I then started to find out more of what he had done and then court happened and I was a complete mess again worrying about press, my address being mentioned and my ex going to prison and having to tell my children what has happened. At court all details came out so was the final blow but then the advantage was address wasn’t mentioned, press weren’t there and everything got rescheduled for magistrates again for 6 weeks later! If anything I have felt quite chipper since then! My life now is certainly a new normal but it is working! I honestly feel like superwoman some days when I get out of the house with the washing machine and dishwasher on, lunches in bags, fresh clothes in everyone and everyone is happy. Not all days are like that and some days I feel like I am not coping, an a rubbish mum and think i’ll break down at any minute but I guess it is all part of the process of gradually moving forward. On the whole though I am stupidly proud of how well I have managed given the circumstances. I am fueled by anger for my ex that I will one day tackle but not now. At times I feel immensely trapped by everything - the duty to still be a good and normal mum to my kids, to hold down a job so that we can pay the mortgage and live, to put a face on and support others at work, to be strong for those that need me to be and to put a smile on my face. And then there are the chocolate orange and pyjamas in the sofa evenings when I watch something crap on Netflix and cry. Does that give you hope? I don’t know. I don’t necessarily feel positive for the future but I feel positive for today and might also tomorrow and on a day by day basis that is enough. And sometimes enough has to suffice.
Rosa
my what a heartfelt post, yes that helps so much, you are right to be proud of yourself .
i also think I am coping when I manage my daughters lunch boxes and getting out the house. I am not feeling angry yet but I am sure it will come.
As I said before I just want to survive as a single mum and I am still struggling with this but I know I can survive.
what a journey you have been on Rosa and it’s not even been 12 months.
my what a heartfelt post, yes that helps so much, you are right to be proud of yourself .
i also think I am coping when I manage my daughters lunch boxes and getting out the house. I am not feeling angry yet but I am sure it will come.
As I said before I just want to survive as a single mum and I am still struggling with this but I know I can survive.
what a journey you have been on Rosa and it’s not even been 12 months.
Bethlou23,
You’re not a single mum; you’re a super mum. You’re keeping your children safe, cared for and happy. And single sounds too alone got my liking - we’re all here!! We might just be names on a screen, but we’re people behind that and we’re all in this together and we’ll all fight our individual fights together. There’s nothing stronger than women. You’ve got this.
You’re not a single mum; you’re a super mum. You’re keeping your children safe, cared for and happy. And single sounds too alone got my liking - we’re all here!! We might just be names on a screen, but we’re people behind that and we’re all in this together and we’ll all fight our individual fights together. There’s nothing stronger than women. You’ve got this.
Thanks Jayne.
i probably post too much but really trying hard not to make too much contact with my ex husband.
Your right we are all super for surviving and behind each person there is a human being going through just as we are having our worlds shaken up. I do keep reminding myself that in 12 months I may be more together. There are so many unknowns and the majority of my time is spent on why on earth would he act on such a horrible thing. Yes he may not have harmed a child directly but those children deserved a childhood.
So I am still very mixed up about the offence. I am having counselling and this forum is helping. Thanks so much Jayne we are there for each other. It’s not something you can talk to just anybody about and I know on here there is no judgment only support and kindness. Whatever stage of our individual journeys xxx
i probably post too much but really trying hard not to make too much contact with my ex husband.
Your right we are all super for surviving and behind each person there is a human being going through just as we are having our worlds shaken up. I do keep reminding myself that in 12 months I may be more together. There are so many unknowns and the majority of my time is spent on why on earth would he act on such a horrible thing. Yes he may not have harmed a child directly but those children deserved a childhood.
So I am still very mixed up about the offence. I am having counselling and this forum is helping. Thanks so much Jayne we are there for each other. It’s not something you can talk to just anybody about and I know on here there is no judgment only support and kindness. Whatever stage of our individual journeys xxx
Bethlou23, I try to remind myself that I may feel totally different in 12 months, but that just feels like such a long time and 12 months can feel so unachievable at times. Instead I just need to keep reminding myself I may feel totally different next week, or tomorrow (or in an hour, if my mood swings are anything to go by!). I’m so pleased I found a judgement-free zone and can post on here when I feel I’ve nowhere to turn. I’m still in the “shame” phase, in that I’ve not spoken to any of my friends etc about my situation. I can’t bring myself to do that just yet, plus I know I’m not capable of doing it coherently just yet, as it’s still too raw. That’s where this forum is incredible, because I can see I’m not alone, and seeing that others have gotten through this is a big help.
Keep going - it’s Friday today, which means we’ve all made it through another week.
Keep going - it’s Friday today, which means we’ve all made it through another week.
Hi Bethlou23
Originally my husband said a few images of 14 year old girls, nude it draped, turns out there were Cat A videos and images Cat B images and animals.
At court we heard about a further 391 Cat A images my husband had 'forgotten' to mention!!
The judge was also aware that there was probably much much more due to the fact that my husband had cleared alot of images but the search for websites remained on there!
As I've said before my husband wouldn't know the truth of it hit him in the face, which I hope it does one day and he realises the extent of the damage he's done to do many people, especially those poor children who will never get over what has happened to them!!
You're doing really well, keep going, one day this will be better and easier to live with
Xx
Originally my husband said a few images of 14 year old girls, nude it draped, turns out there were Cat A videos and images Cat B images and animals.
At court we heard about a further 391 Cat A images my husband had 'forgotten' to mention!!
The judge was also aware that there was probably much much more due to the fact that my husband had cleared alot of images but the search for websites remained on there!
As I've said before my husband wouldn't know the truth of it hit him in the face, which I hope it does one day and he realises the extent of the damage he's done to do many people, especially those poor children who will never get over what has happened to them!!
You're doing really well, keep going, one day this will be better and easier to live with
Xx
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Andrea,
I found out the number of images in category from his charge sheet - he told me what was on there although i misinterpreted what he meant at the beginning and he wasn’t trying to be clearer. At court the exact same number of images in the same categories was mentioned but at this point the new info was the age of those involved - some much younger than the teenagers he had told me. I didn’t find out how many images were of younger children and in which categories and then felt like I wanted to know as with the information only being drip fed to me over the last 10 months I wanted to know everything - then I questioned what good it was to know any more and just left it at that. Not sure if i’ll ever find out. Once it has gone to court it is technically in the public domain as apart from closed court cases, anyone can go and listen to a case - therefore the should be a way for you to find this information from somewhere other than from your partner. Hope that helps, Rosa
I found out the number of images in category from his charge sheet - he told me what was on there although i misinterpreted what he meant at the beginning and he wasn’t trying to be clearer. At court the exact same number of images in the same categories was mentioned but at this point the new info was the age of those involved - some much younger than the teenagers he had told me. I didn’t find out how many images were of younger children and in which categories and then felt like I wanted to know as with the information only being drip fed to me over the last 10 months I wanted to know everything - then I questioned what good it was to know any more and just left it at that. Not sure if i’ll ever find out. Once it has gone to court it is technically in the public domain as apart from closed court cases, anyone can go and listen to a case - therefore the should be a way for you to find this information from somewhere other than from your partner. Hope that helps, Rosa
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Andrea,
I didn’t see his charge sheet either but I asked about it. I wanted to know what his charge might look like so asked him to speak to the social worker as I needed to prepare my kids for what might happen and she said she couldn’t speak to me unless he had told me all the details already and that is when the full image count came out. It was horrible and hugely shocking. I always wish I had known it all from the beginning - worse case scenarios I can deal with but being drip fed the information was the worst. I think I want to know more just so there are no more surprises. But the worst is out now, the rest is all just more pain so I’m good without it! Plus i’ve still got the sentencing to go through.
I didn’t see his charge sheet either but I asked about it. I wanted to know what his charge might look like so asked him to speak to the social worker as I needed to prepare my kids for what might happen and she said she couldn’t speak to me unless he had told me all the details already and that is when the full image count came out. It was horrible and hugely shocking. I always wish I had known it all from the beginning - worse case scenarios I can deal with but being drip fed the information was the worst. I think I want to know more just so there are no more surprises. But the worst is out now, the rest is all just more pain so I’m good without it! Plus i’ve still got the sentencing to go through.
From the beginning my husband said none although admitted looking at pornography. Charge sheet claimed just over a dozen but the actual offence was a bit mixed up and didn’t exist in law. By the time it got to court the offence changed but the numbers stated the same. All lowest level. Then the police reduced the numbers to less than a handful, their ‘expert’ and the high tech unit couldn’t agree on legality of the images so there is a level of subjectivity in identifying images. Case was eventually dropped by CPS before any images could be agreed with the defence but I understand they certainly would have been challenged in court. The images were not tested, not accepted and not established in a court of law. Of course for the professional hearing the numbers reverted to the just over a dozen, despite their expert lowering the numbers in court. It matters not, Police had control and manipulated the case from the outset to employers, because its literally an ‘unseen’ crime no one can challenge it. You can’t even challenge the ‘intelligence’ to see where this mess came from. Detailed examination by the defence of the day/time/numbers police claim the offence
....occurred showed nothing, just ordinary, everyday computer use, down to the minute.
My husband was honest about the number. When I heard he was charged (he was arrested for accessing images for a month but it was for almost 2 years) I though maybe he had 3 or 4, 10 at a push. When he told me it was 2000 I nearly threw up, it made me sick to the stomach. When I called Stop it Now I expected a massive gap and a "2000 that's horrible, he should be shot" but instead I was told that it wasnt an extreme number. It was high but not extreme.
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Oh yes Andrea, hearing those numbers just was unbelievable. I thought I heard him wrong to begin with. I can be quite naive and to think there was even 2000 images out there shocked me. Knowing what I know now it's barely a drop in the ocean. Its soul destroying.
My partner is saying no visits to sites with illegal images on them, so none that were knowingly indecent. Police arrested him on suspicion of 5 cat C but from third party intelligence, whatever that is. Talked to an expert in this field the other day and they said for 5 cat C they would usually issue a caution.
i get the feeling in my case it might be a bit like Jaded’s - some of the stuff he has said he has looked at isn’t actually illegal. But we are still in this hell hole of a mess.
i get the feeling in my case it might be a bit like Jaded’s - some of the stuff he has said he has looked at isn’t actually illegal. But we are still in this hell hole of a mess.
Big Sigh our cases do sound similar. No illegal websites visited in my husbands case (even police agreed that) yet employers used terms like ‘child abuse websites’. Honestly they just wanted to make it sound as bad as it possibly could. Only Google used as a search engine. I’ve looked at the adult porn sites which are very popular with the great British public. The titles taken on their own sound horrendous but there are no children there. Too long a story to bore you with on here. My own view is that amongst thousands of images of adult pornography less than a handful of unchallenged cat c images without search terms (in excess of 50,000 every day search terms) does not sound like an intentional searching for child images to me.
Thanks Jaded. The therapist told me the biggest size porn market is teen images. And on adult websites there are a list of things you can click inc ‘teen’. Doesn’t mean they are under 18 - though can imagine some of them look under 18. Doesn’t make it right. Also doesn’t make it illegal. But when the image is separated from the website where it came from then suddenly it is Cat C. I had one person (a woman) ask me if I thought he would be able to control himself around teenage girls. I found myself (perhaps not helpfully) saying that he also looked at older women porn but that doesn’t mean he fancies you. I am so sick and tired of it all. And not hearing anything from police just stretches out the torture.
Yes I get what you mean. ‘Teen’ categories are massive but even if you don’t choose that category the thumbnails and descriptive words tagged in the images can stay on your computer. You can’t actually see these words by they are there. Other categories include incest labelled ones and all sorts of familial relationships.
Has anyone seen the ‘Mums make Porn’ series on C4? Honestly the reactions of some of them are laughable. I’m not talking about the religious Mum who dropped out, I entirely respect her views and perspectives on pornography. But some of their over reactions have been completely over the top. A mum of 6 heaving over seeing sperm? Come on, it’s not as if she hasn’t seen that before is it? The interviews with young people on there have left me wide eyed with the descriptions and titles of movies. I can tell you if any of those had come up on husbands computer they would have scalped him! Even more than they did.
Some words and phrases the police brought up as indicating a propensity to illegal activity were from a song, a very well known current pop star. In isolation even I agreed sounded dodgy but when you could see where they actually come from it showed the desperation of the police to find something, anything to prop up their version.
And Big Sigh....what a great answer. Idiot woman with no idea of the world you now live in, what you now know and the complexities of computers/internet/pornography. I’d would have wanted to punch her in the throat.
finally I agree, not illegal, but an issue for discussion between you and your husband. No one else’s business.
Has anyone seen the ‘Mums make Porn’ series on C4? Honestly the reactions of some of them are laughable. I’m not talking about the religious Mum who dropped out, I entirely respect her views and perspectives on pornography. But some of their over reactions have been completely over the top. A mum of 6 heaving over seeing sperm? Come on, it’s not as if she hasn’t seen that before is it? The interviews with young people on there have left me wide eyed with the descriptions and titles of movies. I can tell you if any of those had come up on husbands computer they would have scalped him! Even more than they did.
Some words and phrases the police brought up as indicating a propensity to illegal activity were from a song, a very well known current pop star. In isolation even I agreed sounded dodgy but when you could see where they actually come from it showed the desperation of the police to find something, anything to prop up their version.
And Big Sigh....what a great answer. Idiot woman with no idea of the world you now live in, what you now know and the complexities of computers/internet/pornography. I’d would have wanted to punch her in the throat.
finally I agree, not illegal, but an issue for discussion between you and your husband. No one else’s business.
I dont think it matters on the number of images. My husband received a 3 year community order for viewing 36 images (7 of which were thumbnails). Majority cat c. No evidence of intentional saving or searches. Like someone said to me on here before. It depends on the judge and jury on the day however I still dont get how someone can receive the same punishment if the amount of images is different.
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Hi Soconfused
I was with someone for nearly two decades and believe now he had been doing this before we were together. You need to phone social services and ask what they initially found. If the stories tally up then you know there is hope for you and your partner. I believe, as someone else has mentioned, it is hard to view indecent images by mistake. From stories I have read on line, a majority of offenders, seem to start with adult porn but they get bored and start looking elsewhere. Have you thought of what you might do if he was not telling you the truth? You and your children are the most important people in this situation.
I hope you find an answer.X
I was with someone for nearly two decades and believe now he had been doing this before we were together. You need to phone social services and ask what they initially found. If the stories tally up then you know there is hope for you and your partner. I believe, as someone else has mentioned, it is hard to view indecent images by mistake. From stories I have read on line, a majority of offenders, seem to start with adult porn but they get bored and start looking elsewhere. Have you thought of what you might do if he was not telling you the truth? You and your children are the most important people in this situation.
I hope you find an answer.X
Hi
yes I am still here. 9 months in and still nothing.
yes I am still here. 9 months in and still nothing.
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Hi Soconfusedi.
Sorry I misunderstood I thought you meant your partner said there was only one image. As you say one is enough.
The process seems to be a long one and this in itself will ware you down. I really hope you come through this.
Stay positive.
x
Sorry I misunderstood I thought you meant your partner said there was only one image. As you say one is enough.
The process seems to be a long one and this in itself will ware you down. I really hope you come through this.
Stay positive.
x
Hi Soconfused
i can almost guarantee it won’t be 3 months. The only people on this forum who have had a quick turnaround are those who have put in an immediate guilty plea.
yes my partner is still saying he has not knowingly viewed illegal images. The police do need some sort of evidence though for a search warrant and in my case I think I can see where it has come from and why they think what they do (sorry I can’t go into specifics in case it indentifies me) so you might want to talk to your partner about how they got enough evidence for a search warrant. My partner is saying the images he viewed were from a legal website (I have looked it up, it is in top 40 most used websites worldwide) and it clearly said that images were 18 or over. The problem is that these new porn websites allow people to post images themselves and whilst I understand there is some moderation of images posted, I don’t think the system is perfect. When those pictures get separated from the website they come from then it is a matter of subjective judgement whether the person is over 18 or not. There is some very interesting research from Uni of Birmingham that they have done with the police saying that trying to judge age of photos is very difficult and lots of time people in police don’t agree on the age.
So whilst the line is “there are no grey areas”, in fact in law there are grey areas. Are you innocent if you viewed naked images of people you thought were 18 and over because the website said they were (even if they weren’t) ? Or are you just as guilty as the person who knowingly searched for indecent images of people under 18?
So is he innocent or not? I don’t know. But he has been honest with me about a lot of stuff (none of it illegal) which he didn’t have to be.
In the next few months just expect SS to be the worst bit of you let him have contact with your kids, especially as they aren’t his. They won’t believe a word he says and will monitor you to see what you do. It is a lot of pressure to live under and if he wasn’t the father of my kids and long term partner I’m not sure I would recommend it as a way of life. This never goes away, especially if you’ve got kids.
i can almost guarantee it won’t be 3 months. The only people on this forum who have had a quick turnaround are those who have put in an immediate guilty plea.
yes my partner is still saying he has not knowingly viewed illegal images. The police do need some sort of evidence though for a search warrant and in my case I think I can see where it has come from and why they think what they do (sorry I can’t go into specifics in case it indentifies me) so you might want to talk to your partner about how they got enough evidence for a search warrant. My partner is saying the images he viewed were from a legal website (I have looked it up, it is in top 40 most used websites worldwide) and it clearly said that images were 18 or over. The problem is that these new porn websites allow people to post images themselves and whilst I understand there is some moderation of images posted, I don’t think the system is perfect. When those pictures get separated from the website they come from then it is a matter of subjective judgement whether the person is over 18 or not. There is some very interesting research from Uni of Birmingham that they have done with the police saying that trying to judge age of photos is very difficult and lots of time people in police don’t agree on the age.
So whilst the line is “there are no grey areas”, in fact in law there are grey areas. Are you innocent if you viewed naked images of people you thought were 18 and over because the website said they were (even if they weren’t) ? Or are you just as guilty as the person who knowingly searched for indecent images of people under 18?
So is he innocent or not? I don’t know. But he has been honest with me about a lot of stuff (none of it illegal) which he didn’t have to be.
In the next few months just expect SS to be the worst bit of you let him have contact with your kids, especially as they aren’t his. They won’t believe a word he says and will monitor you to see what you do. It is a lot of pressure to live under and if he wasn’t the father of my kids and long term partner I’m not sure I would recommend it as a way of life. This never goes away, especially if you’ve got kids.
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