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We had the CPS summary of evidence with charges yesterday and today met with my partners solictor ahead of magistrates next week.
we always knew it was attempted sexual communication with a decoy, but now we also have attempting to incite a child into penetrative sexual activity.
solicitor has warned that we are facing prison charges. I am absolutely devastated, for him and for our 9 month old and for myself.
has anyone else had the incite charge and escaped prison?
he's done so much work since arrest to heal and better himself, and it just doesn't seem fair that this won't be enough for a suspended sentence x
we always knew it was attempted sexual communication with a decoy, but now we also have attempting to incite a child into penetrative sexual activity.
solicitor has warned that we are facing prison charges. I am absolutely devastated, for him and for our 9 month old and for myself.
has anyone else had the incite charge and escaped prison?
he's done so much work since arrest to heal and better himself, and it just doesn't seem fair that this won't be enough for a suspended sentence x
Hi pregnantandscared
Your circumstances are completely different to mine but I just wanted to offer you some support and comfort and hope that your partner receives a positive outcome . I'm sending you a big virtual hug to you and your family at a time when memories should be made of happy fun times with your little one and not clouded by all this . Sending much love .
maij x
Your circumstances are completely different to mine but I just wanted to offer you some support and comfort and hope that your partner receives a positive outcome . I'm sending you a big virtual hug to you and your family at a time when memories should be made of happy fun times with your little one and not clouded by all this . Sending much love .
maij x
I feel like my world is falling apart and that I'm back where I was just after the knock last year.
Hi pregnantandscared,
Like Maij, your circumstances are different to mine but I just wanted to send you a huge hug - it must be incredibly difficult for you. Will be thinking of you and hoping for a positive outcome, please keep chatting to us on here and let us know what happens. xx
Like Maij, your circumstances are different to mine but I just wanted to send you a huge hug - it must be incredibly difficult for you. Will be thinking of you and hoping for a positive outcome, please keep chatting to us on here and let us know what happens. xx
I can't offer and advise or experience on the specic charge, but do understand how you feel.
My partner has been charged with a charge of similar severity and when I found out the likely sentence my world fell apart. From my own experience the intensity of the feelings calmed down a little as we started working on everything we could to help his case and the practical things that needed to be done and we started to accept what a new future might look like. It hurts though. It's horrible and painful.
I do recall trawling through pages and seeing someone's partner was charged with incite but got a suspended sentence, but I can't remember who and whether it included penetrative - if you haven't already, search on "incite".
Hopefully all the work he's done will be of help and I'm wishing you all the best.
My partner has been charged with a charge of similar severity and when I found out the likely sentence my world fell apart. From my own experience the intensity of the feelings calmed down a little as we started working on everything we could to help his case and the practical things that needed to be done and we started to accept what a new future might look like. It hurts though. It's horrible and painful.
I do recall trawling through pages and seeing someone's partner was charged with incite but got a suspended sentence, but I can't remember who and whether it included penetrative - if you haven't already, search on "incite".
Hopefully all the work he's done will be of help and I'm wishing you all the best.
Hey Pregnant,
I'm so sorry, it certainly does bring it all to the surface and intensify it when those charges come, especially as they use the worst parts when citing the charges. Have you also had the evidence along with the charges and your solicitor look through it? We got a copy of the evidence from the solicitor. My partner is charged with communication, sending images of himself and also incite (not penetrative but can't remember which one). There is a lot of other issues with our case which includes the Police using someone else's account which does not belong to my partner. But in regards to incite - if we can't get it dropped for a couple of other valid reasons - the wording of the chat is not inciteful but they're just pushing for it to be incite so it would be worth going through the chat and actually looking to see if anything can be done. It really depends on the context of the chat and it's certainly worth going through with a fine toothcomb as unpleasant as it is. It's good that your partner has done some work on himself and hopefully this will be picked up by the judge. Sending love xx
I'm so sorry, it certainly does bring it all to the surface and intensify it when those charges come, especially as they use the worst parts when citing the charges. Have you also had the evidence along with the charges and your solicitor look through it? We got a copy of the evidence from the solicitor. My partner is charged with communication, sending images of himself and also incite (not penetrative but can't remember which one). There is a lot of other issues with our case which includes the Police using someone else's account which does not belong to my partner. But in regards to incite - if we can't get it dropped for a couple of other valid reasons - the wording of the chat is not inciteful but they're just pushing for it to be incite so it would be worth going through the chat and actually looking to see if anything can be done. It really depends on the context of the chat and it's certainly worth going through with a fine toothcomb as unpleasant as it is. It's good that your partner has done some work on himself and hopefully this will be picked up by the judge. Sending love xx
Thanks all. It genuinely is as awful as it sounds, and we've had the summary - the decoy asks how to masturbate and my partner explains how.
We are doing practicalities as much as possible but have also just been dealt with the blow this morning that he's got suspected bowel cancer. Very early stages but just another stress and worry, and I don't even know if prisons can facilitate that care.
We are doing practicalities as much as possible but have also just been dealt with the blow this morning that he's got suspected bowel cancer. Very early stages but just another stress and worry, and I don't even know if prisons can facilitate that care.
Penetrative sits at four years starting point for culpability A and one year starting point for culpability B. We are hoping for B but they have mentioned grooming within the summary, so that would push it to A...but need to see what gets said.
We have two attempted incite charges for sexual activity and then four attempted charges related to him sending pictures and a video and then one overall attempted charge for sexual communication. They've tried to add a third incite sexual activity charge, but we've asked them to show us where in the chats as it's not been made clear.
All one chat one and off in a month. And it's ruining our lives :(
He's been living apart from us for over 9 months and I'm praying they can see all the work he has done and suspend the sentence.
We have two attempted incite charges for sexual activity and then four attempted charges related to him sending pictures and a video and then one overall attempted charge for sexual communication. They've tried to add a third incite sexual activity charge, but we've asked them to show us where in the chats as it's not been made clear.
All one chat one and off in a month. And it's ruining our lives :(
He's been living apart from us for over 9 months and I'm praying they can see all the work he has done and suspend the sentence.
The solictor has said that we can't really deny them, as it's very clear it's my partner masturbating in them. So they meet the threshold for inciting a child to watch a sexual act.
I'm sorry pregnant it must be awful for you :(. Perhaps with there being no images found or other chats they may see it as a lapse in judgement and stupidity as opposed to anything more and give a lesser sentence. Keep us updated, I'll be thinking of you and hoping for the best xx
Really hoping for a positive outcome for you all. It does seem it is very dependent on the judge on the day, which isn't helpful. Try to enjoy every day, make memories and take lots of pictures, either way the sentancing goes its a nicer way to spend time together.
My husband had the same charges for inciting due to the same conversation. No pictures or other conversations were found and he unfortunately got a custodial sentance. Dont think anyone can prepare you for that feeling, all I can say is it does settle and you get into a routine as the time passes.
Thinking of you all and hoping for the best x
My husband had the same charges for inciting due to the same conversation. No pictures or other conversations were found and he unfortunately got a custodial sentance. Dont think anyone can prepare you for that feeling, all I can say is it does settle and you get into a routine as the time passes.
Thinking of you all and hoping for the best x
Hey Ttyh,
Glad you seem to be doing well following the sentencing. I'm just wondering and please don't feel obliged to disclose, did the conversation contain evidence which made it perfectly clear the decoy was below age? In our case (which is quite complex) their age is only stated once and no other reference to it or anything mentioned like school or being inexperienced etc which I find odd as normally they would state it several times or make it clear they were a child for the case to be strong, or have I got that wrong? Xx
Glad you seem to be doing well following the sentencing. I'm just wondering and please don't feel obliged to disclose, did the conversation contain evidence which made it perfectly clear the decoy was below age? In our case (which is quite complex) their age is only stated once and no other reference to it or anything mentioned like school or being inexperienced etc which I find odd as normally they would state it several times or make it clear they were a child for the case to be strong, or have I got that wrong? Xx
Baffled, the wording in my OH's charges was just communication with someone he did not 'reasonably believe to be over 12 years old', I haven't seen the chats but I'm not sure how much clarity they need there tbh to prove it.
Pregnantandscared, my OH's charges sound similar to yours. My understanding was that the starting point for the penetrative one is 6 years then they work back from that with mitigating factors etc. I believe it is that one charge from his 6 (2 of which are identically worded but with a different decoy) which got him a custodial. He received 3 years, so will serve 18 months.
Sorry I can't bring better news, maybe you will be lucky. But best to prepare for the worst just in case.
Pregnantandscared, my OH's charges sound similar to yours. My understanding was that the starting point for the penetrative one is 6 years then they work back from that with mitigating factors etc. I believe it is that one charge from his 6 (2 of which are identically worded but with a different decoy) which got him a custodial. He received 3 years, so will serve 18 months.
Sorry I can't bring better news, maybe you will be lucky. But best to prepare for the worst just in case.
Hey Busy,
Thank you for that. This is what confuses me sometimes because in my case there is 1 reference to age in a chat and that's all and before age is stated there is no indication in the chat that the person (decoy) is underage so it's all conjecture really. I could turn round to anyone and say I'm 12 online but doesn't mean they would reasonably believe that if my level of conversation was that of an adult, especially if I'd "met" them in a over 18's chat. Sorry for hijacking the thread, was just curious off the back off what the OP said x
Thank you for that. This is what confuses me sometimes because in my case there is 1 reference to age in a chat and that's all and before age is stated there is no indication in the chat that the person (decoy) is underage so it's all conjecture really. I could turn round to anyone and say I'm 12 online but doesn't mean they would reasonably believe that if my level of conversation was that of an adult, especially if I'd "met" them in a over 18's chat. Sorry for hijacking the thread, was just curious off the back off what the OP said x
Hi baffled.
The age was only mentioned once and the profile said they were of age, it was a decoy as well. No pictures, no phone calls or exchanging of numbers no meet ups.
There's 2 different sentancing guidelines for that charge, one starting at 4 and one starting at 6 years. They seem to put them into the higher category, as they can class any conversation is classed as grooming (not multiple) its at the judges discretion I think and they decide which one to put them. There's a chance of a suspended if there's mitigating factors if they get put in the one starting at 4 years but unfortunately if in the other one there won't be.
The age was only mentioned once and the profile said they were of age, it was a decoy as well. No pictures, no phone calls or exchanging of numbers no meet ups.
There's 2 different sentancing guidelines for that charge, one starting at 4 and one starting at 6 years. They seem to put them into the higher category, as they can class any conversation is classed as grooming (not multiple) its at the judges discretion I think and they decide which one to put them. There's a chance of a suspended if there's mitigating factors if they get put in the one starting at 4 years but unfortunately if in the other one there won't be.
Thanks guys, it just doesn't make any sense and I feel it's really unfair to some people who have probably just not taken it seriously or perhaps even thought it was some kind of roleplay, it's not like 3 points on your licence or a fine, the outcome is life changing x
My partner has a similar charge where the same sentencing guidelines are applied.
From reading I understand that were 2 ways the sentencing was being applied. But that this was highlighted and judges have now been given clear guidelines in what order to apply the charges, this means that they should start at 6 years.
Google Crucible and the charge or Crucible Privett and Manning.
I've been so naive, when I've seen other people court outcomes and seen the list of charges or where there have been multiple counts, I guess I thought they were all independent activities mostly happening at different times for example 4 counts and then additional charges of groom and some photos. It really makes the defendants look like they are serial offenders and, when it seems that in most scenarios they are related to the same activity/chat.
I really find the decoy activity really hard to get around. I go round in circles of thinking so many men are led on with very unrealistic conversations, to then thinking but they could have chosen not to respond, to then thinking we all make mistakes and errors in judgements, we've all broken the law at some point, to then thinking yeh but if these things had actually happened it would be very damaging to the child. Hurts my head. Then I wonder how many really dangerous men are out there, that are being more cautious and underground, but they aren't being found because the police are getting low hanging fruit that have made one mistake by having one conversation and possibly been quite naive. I'd be interested to know how many prosecutions happen where they only charges they have related to decoys and there is no other evidence to believe that this was something they regularly do.
Pregnantanscared, I'm so sorry to hear your partner is facing worrying health problems as well as all of this. I hope some light comes soon.
From reading I understand that were 2 ways the sentencing was being applied. But that this was highlighted and judges have now been given clear guidelines in what order to apply the charges, this means that they should start at 6 years.
Google Crucible and the charge or Crucible Privett and Manning.
I've been so naive, when I've seen other people court outcomes and seen the list of charges or where there have been multiple counts, I guess I thought they were all independent activities mostly happening at different times for example 4 counts and then additional charges of groom and some photos. It really makes the defendants look like they are serial offenders and, when it seems that in most scenarios they are related to the same activity/chat.
I really find the decoy activity really hard to get around. I go round in circles of thinking so many men are led on with very unrealistic conversations, to then thinking but they could have chosen not to respond, to then thinking we all make mistakes and errors in judgements, we've all broken the law at some point, to then thinking yeh but if these things had actually happened it would be very damaging to the child. Hurts my head. Then I wonder how many really dangerous men are out there, that are being more cautious and underground, but they aren't being found because the police are getting low hanging fruit that have made one mistake by having one conversation and possibly been quite naive. I'd be interested to know how many prosecutions happen where they only charges they have related to decoys and there is no other evidence to believe that this was something they regularly do.
Pregnantanscared, I'm so sorry to hear your partner is facing worrying health problems as well as all of this. I hope some light comes soon.
Baffled,
I tottally get it he is in a similar situation, make sure you have the evidence full disclosure up front he hasn't and now godknows what's going on it's like they keep pulling out evidence but can't evidence where it's from? I catagoricly remember them/him saying reported age was 12 now apparently they are 13? WTF?
It annoys me soo much as there are people out there who are really a danger to children and police can't get thier sh*t sorted and why an earth has it taken soo long they should have them banged to rights surely??
Challenge the evidence if you can don't do thier job for them.
I tottally get it he is in a similar situation, make sure you have the evidence full disclosure up front he hasn't and now godknows what's going on it's like they keep pulling out evidence but can't evidence where it's from? I catagoricly remember them/him saying reported age was 12 now apparently they are 13? WTF?
It annoys me soo much as there are people out there who are really a danger to children and police can't get thier sh*t sorted and why an earth has it taken soo long they should have them banged to rights surely??
Challenge the evidence if you can don't do thier job for them.
SAL,
I totally agree with how you think, I genuinely believe that there are a lot of men who would never harm anyone and as much as it would be harmful if the decoy was actually a real child I think there are many instances where there is very little evidence for it to ring home that it is a child, if that makes sense. For example, in chat rooms where there are no pictures and everyone is pretending to be something they're not, it's like a make believe world. I don't think there is enough awareness of how serious these crimes are taken, if it was as common knowlege as physically sleeping with someone under 16 is a crime then it probably wouldn't happen as much. I only found out about a lot of laws when I began this journey.
Summer,
Thank you! We definitely are questioning everything and fighting against it. We have a meeting with the barrister tomorrow so hopefully this will shed more light on things. I really am willing the day this gets finished. Is there any news on another date for yourself? I keep checking to see. I didn't think they were allowed to provide more evidence after the CPS had decided charges but again, they seem to do what they want when it comes to these cases because everyone is guilty even if they're not and they should all be treated with utter disregard!
I totally agree with how you think, I genuinely believe that there are a lot of men who would never harm anyone and as much as it would be harmful if the decoy was actually a real child I think there are many instances where there is very little evidence for it to ring home that it is a child, if that makes sense. For example, in chat rooms where there are no pictures and everyone is pretending to be something they're not, it's like a make believe world. I don't think there is enough awareness of how serious these crimes are taken, if it was as common knowlege as physically sleeping with someone under 16 is a crime then it probably wouldn't happen as much. I only found out about a lot of laws when I began this journey.
Summer,
Thank you! We definitely are questioning everything and fighting against it. We have a meeting with the barrister tomorrow so hopefully this will shed more light on things. I really am willing the day this gets finished. Is there any news on another date for yourself? I keep checking to see. I didn't think they were allowed to provide more evidence after the CPS had decided charges but again, they seem to do what they want when it comes to these cases because everyone is guilty even if they're not and they should all be treated with utter disregard!
That's shocking Lee! It's almost setting people up to plead guilty, they should send it all and then people can make an informed decision on what to plead, particularly in these cases because 1- the accused are treated so poorly and treated as though they're guilty, 2- the time lapsed since alleged offending. Some people could forget vital elements of conversations they've had as let's face it, some people have no clue they've even committed a crime until the knock happens in communication cases so how are they meant to remember everything, especially when they're repeatedly told things like pleading guilty will look better for you. I wonder how many people have been convicted by pleading guilty when if it had gone to trial they would've been found innocent.