getting my head around it
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hello,
i havent posted/read anything here for over a year as my brother was given a suspended sentence in march 2021. everything has been ok since.
however, i have just watched the netflix documentary about jimmy savile with my mum (i live with my mum and brother). i was triggered by a clip of police "knocking" and the trauma of the knock came flooding back.
my two thoughts of this show were my hatred for the police, and my hatred of savile.
since the knock i have felt physical disgust towards police more than towards the crime brother commited (iioc, cat a,b and c). i have not felt safe in their presence. by loving and knowing and accepting my brother, my mum and i felt as if we too are guilty in the eyes of the police. they are so self riteous and think they are all doing good and bettering the world. but what about my world? my family's world? it is not better, we have been left traumatised by the experience and as a family member, completely discarded. how does one deal with their trauma of the police, the knock, and everything that comes with being a family member of sex offender? (heavy question, i know).
secondly, how is it possible that i hate jimmy savile but love my brother and want what's best for him? within the sphere of child sex offenders, their crimes could not be more different. my brother has never physically or literally hurt a child, and yet they are both "paedophiles", but my mind can't seem to group the two together. i want people like savile (if he were still alive) to rot in prison, even though i don't agree with prison systems and don't believe my brother or our loved ones on this forum belong in prisons. how does this make sense? from an outsider's view, my brother and savile are the same, and both deserve to be "locked up forever". savile was a prolific abuser and creepy old man, my brother (now 22, but was 20 when he was arrested) was a confused, damaged young man and a victim himself. how do i want some sex offenders to be punished but want others to live a normal life and be loved? it's knotting my brain!
Billion
i havent posted/read anything here for over a year as my brother was given a suspended sentence in march 2021. everything has been ok since.
however, i have just watched the netflix documentary about jimmy savile with my mum (i live with my mum and brother). i was triggered by a clip of police "knocking" and the trauma of the knock came flooding back.
my two thoughts of this show were my hatred for the police, and my hatred of savile.
since the knock i have felt physical disgust towards police more than towards the crime brother commited (iioc, cat a,b and c). i have not felt safe in their presence. by loving and knowing and accepting my brother, my mum and i felt as if we too are guilty in the eyes of the police. they are so self riteous and think they are all doing good and bettering the world. but what about my world? my family's world? it is not better, we have been left traumatised by the experience and as a family member, completely discarded. how does one deal with their trauma of the police, the knock, and everything that comes with being a family member of sex offender? (heavy question, i know).
secondly, how is it possible that i hate jimmy savile but love my brother and want what's best for him? within the sphere of child sex offenders, their crimes could not be more different. my brother has never physically or literally hurt a child, and yet they are both "paedophiles", but my mind can't seem to group the two together. i want people like savile (if he were still alive) to rot in prison, even though i don't agree with prison systems and don't believe my brother or our loved ones on this forum belong in prisons. how does this make sense? from an outsider's view, my brother and savile are the same, and both deserve to be "locked up forever". savile was a prolific abuser and creepy old man, my brother (now 22, but was 20 when he was arrested) was a confused, damaged young man and a victim himself. how do i want some sex offenders to be punished but want others to live a normal life and be loved? it's knotting my brain!
Billion
Hey Billion,
I can echo what Lee says about society grouping everyone under the same thing. My personal opinion is that although iioc is wrong and I absolutely agree nobody should have it, it doesn't mean they are a bad person, a lot of people accidentally stumble upon it and there are various reasons why it may end up in their posession.
In regards to the Police, my personal experience has made me despise them. I was gaslighted in my own home and effectively emotionally tortured for 2 hours whilst they lied to me, spoke to me like shit and watched me break my heart. The way they treated me was unnecessary, they can't even say they needed to turn me against my partner for the sake of children (not that that would be acceptable either) because we don't have any. Following the release of the evidence from the CPS all of their statements about the arrest are all totally different, one says there was a strong smell of cannabis coming from my bedroom window (nobody smokes cannabis in my house but perhaps because of his ethnicity this makes it juicier to the CPS) and that my partner resisted arrest and went to get a weapon (total lie). Following this the OIC visited twice and further stuck the knife in. I am not a horrible person but if I heard one of them had met a grisly end I would do a merry dance. Not everyones experience is as awful as mine but everyone should be treated with compassion and understanding because we are victims too and need help and support. Unfortunately I imagine their own prejudice prevents them from doing this, I'm still waiting on an apology for them saying my partner would have thousands of iioc yet they didn't find any.
I can echo what Lee says about society grouping everyone under the same thing. My personal opinion is that although iioc is wrong and I absolutely agree nobody should have it, it doesn't mean they are a bad person, a lot of people accidentally stumble upon it and there are various reasons why it may end up in their posession.
In regards to the Police, my personal experience has made me despise them. I was gaslighted in my own home and effectively emotionally tortured for 2 hours whilst they lied to me, spoke to me like shit and watched me break my heart. The way they treated me was unnecessary, they can't even say they needed to turn me against my partner for the sake of children (not that that would be acceptable either) because we don't have any. Following the release of the evidence from the CPS all of their statements about the arrest are all totally different, one says there was a strong smell of cannabis coming from my bedroom window (nobody smokes cannabis in my house but perhaps because of his ethnicity this makes it juicier to the CPS) and that my partner resisted arrest and went to get a weapon (total lie). Following this the OIC visited twice and further stuck the knife in. I am not a horrible person but if I heard one of them had met a grisly end I would do a merry dance. Not everyones experience is as awful as mine but everyone should be treated with compassion and understanding because we are victims too and need help and support. Unfortunately I imagine their own prejudice prevents them from doing this, I'm still waiting on an apology for them saying my partner would have thousands of iioc yet they didn't find any.
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True daffodil.....
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I saw the documentary last night with my partner. I worry if watching such things would not be helpful, maybe like a trigger? Since they did give details of the abuse. However, the benefit I think was that he gets to hear from the victims of the harm that was done to them years after the abuse. My partner when deep in the offending he desensitized himself.
And I also have the conflict of how can I stand by my partner but hate people like saville and other famous offenders. I'm too young to really know about saville. The documentary was the first time I found out how popular he was, which explained why his crimes were so shocking because it went on for years and even though there were rumours and (in hindsight?) Clear warning signs these were not followed up.
A similar example for my generation (and those into rock music) is Ian Watkins, lead singer of lostprophets. I was a huge fan, but since the lead singer was found guilty I haven't been able to listen to their music since. His crimes have tarnished the songs I used to love. So I do wonder why does it affect me that much (a man I never met) but I can be with my partner. I think the main reasons is the empathy and the fact my partner is not a contact offender or instructed abuse. Ian Watkins I believe still doesn't show remorse, he even was quoted before his trial I think to say the who arrest and investigation was 'lolz'.
My partner is so ashamed of his offending, he even says that despite the arrest and conviction being one of the worst things to happen to him, it saved him also because he didn't know how to get out of the cycle of offending.
And I agree with what was said above that it seems 'easier' for the police to target online offenders and there doesn't seem to be much done with those who create the content.
And I also have the conflict of how can I stand by my partner but hate people like saville and other famous offenders. I'm too young to really know about saville. The documentary was the first time I found out how popular he was, which explained why his crimes were so shocking because it went on for years and even though there were rumours and (in hindsight?) Clear warning signs these were not followed up.
A similar example for my generation (and those into rock music) is Ian Watkins, lead singer of lostprophets. I was a huge fan, but since the lead singer was found guilty I haven't been able to listen to their music since. His crimes have tarnished the songs I used to love. So I do wonder why does it affect me that much (a man I never met) but I can be with my partner. I think the main reasons is the empathy and the fact my partner is not a contact offender or instructed abuse. Ian Watkins I believe still doesn't show remorse, he even was quoted before his trial I think to say the who arrest and investigation was 'lolz'.
My partner is so ashamed of his offending, he even says that despite the arrest and conviction being one of the worst things to happen to him, it saved him also because he didn't know how to get out of the cycle of offending.
And I agree with what was said above that it seems 'easier' for the police to target online offenders and there doesn't seem to be much done with those who create the content.
firstly, i'd like to apologise for mentioning savile in such a nonchalant way, as well as my use of the "p" word, lee, i agree, i hate it. it was clumsy of me and as i read back i can understand how it can be a trigger. i'm very sorry.
majestictopaz, i did not finish the series as it was too triggering. but i would like to hear from victims as they often don't have a voice. i too am too young to know of his fame and only really found out about the immesnity of it from this documentary.
as for the other comments, i cannot begin to imagine what being livestreamed by vigilantes is like and my heart goes out to anyone who has had to deal with it. it's disgusting.
as i have read through many of the threads on here, it seems like lots of our loved ones commited these crimes after watching mainstream porn? am i correct? i haven't spoken to my brother in detail about his crime (i don't really want to know too much and i don't think he wants to tell me). but, i do know that he was a child victim himself. he would have "relationships" with much older men as a teenager and i would always tell him that it was predatory and he should be careful. he always told me to mind my own business. i'm obviously kicking myself now that i didn't do more to stop/look after him. but i think he commited these crimes because of the abuse he endured as a young teenager (aged 11 onwards). this kind of psychology i find hard to understand, more so than falling down a rabbit hole like many seem to have done. he is in private therapy now and i hope he is able to understand how his own trauma affected and likely started this crime.
as a victim of r*pe myself i think the police have nothing to be proud of. and the way my brother has been treated by the court ordered therapy as a victim of male r*pe is disgusting (they told him it was his fault and that by not reporting it, his r*pist has probably gone on to abuse other people). i have no nice words to say about the police, every experience i have had with them has been disgraceful and i have never once broken the law. though it definitely feels that they see me now as a criminal because of my brother.
majestictopaz, i did not finish the series as it was too triggering. but i would like to hear from victims as they often don't have a voice. i too am too young to know of his fame and only really found out about the immesnity of it from this documentary.
as for the other comments, i cannot begin to imagine what being livestreamed by vigilantes is like and my heart goes out to anyone who has had to deal with it. it's disgusting.
as i have read through many of the threads on here, it seems like lots of our loved ones commited these crimes after watching mainstream porn? am i correct? i haven't spoken to my brother in detail about his crime (i don't really want to know too much and i don't think he wants to tell me). but, i do know that he was a child victim himself. he would have "relationships" with much older men as a teenager and i would always tell him that it was predatory and he should be careful. he always told me to mind my own business. i'm obviously kicking myself now that i didn't do more to stop/look after him. but i think he commited these crimes because of the abuse he endured as a young teenager (aged 11 onwards). this kind of psychology i find hard to understand, more so than falling down a rabbit hole like many seem to have done. he is in private therapy now and i hope he is able to understand how his own trauma affected and likely started this crime.
as a victim of r*pe myself i think the police have nothing to be proud of. and the way my brother has been treated by the court ordered therapy as a victim of male r*pe is disgusting (they told him it was his fault and that by not reporting it, his r*pist has probably gone on to abuse other people). i have no nice words to say about the police, every experience i have had with them has been disgraceful and i have never once broken the law. though it definitely feels that they see me now as a criminal because of my brother.
I haven't seen the Saville documentary, nor I will, as curious as I am.
My feelings as a survivor are all tangled up. Being abused as a child from the ages of 6 to 12, right now I feel that I'm going thru similar and see the same pattern of behaviour: the secrecy, the shame, the lying. I'm a 40 year old woman who's using the same coping mechanisms as a 6 year old. How pathetic.
So no, I guess our partners and family members are not monsters, but just using using that line, same as Saville, prevents the dealing with those feelings and therefore situations that brought us here in the first place.
Let's not forget that those images are of real kids going thru unimaginable trauma that will stay with them for the rest of their lives. And on top of that, they have made us go thru trauma as well.
What prevents us to seeing them as monsters as well is the fact that we know them, we have amazing memories with them that just don't align to what they have done. But to love is to accept people with all their failings and help them get better, not just deny and separate "the monsters vs my loved one" as yes, our loved ones have done a monstrous thing.
I just want to work with my husband as much as possible so he doesn't end up in custodial and afford my kids with the happy childhood I did not have because it was tainted with this awful crap. I want my next generations to be clean from this.
My feelings as a survivor are all tangled up. Being abused as a child from the ages of 6 to 12, right now I feel that I'm going thru similar and see the same pattern of behaviour: the secrecy, the shame, the lying. I'm a 40 year old woman who's using the same coping mechanisms as a 6 year old. How pathetic.
So no, I guess our partners and family members are not monsters, but just using using that line, same as Saville, prevents the dealing with those feelings and therefore situations that brought us here in the first place.
Let's not forget that those images are of real kids going thru unimaginable trauma that will stay with them for the rest of their lives. And on top of that, they have made us go thru trauma as well.
What prevents us to seeing them as monsters as well is the fact that we know them, we have amazing memories with them that just don't align to what they have done. But to love is to accept people with all their failings and help them get better, not just deny and separate "the monsters vs my loved one" as yes, our loved ones have done a monstrous thing.
I just want to work with my husband as much as possible so he doesn't end up in custodial and afford my kids with the happy childhood I did not have because it was tainted with this awful crap. I want my next generations to be clean from this.
This is a very thought provoking thread. Saville was someone's loved one too. Other, innocent, people have been affected through their relationship with him too and they are being scarred by this documentary, was this explored? I haven't watched it.
I believe that everyone is worthy of help. I believe that most people are able to reform, there are often reasons, for contact offenders, the same as non contact offenders. These root causes are what need to be explored as only be understanding can we stop this behaviour and protect our children and also women from sexual harm.
What is not discussed on this thread so far is the professional bodies that enable this behaviour, and for years must have closed their eyes, as it was not financially beneficial to take action. They should be held to account. We could all see that he was 'creepy', even when I remember him on TV in the 70s I know I would not have wanted to meet him! I am sure that his victims would have displayed some behaviours after his exploitation that were worthy of exploring and they should have been heard at the time.
I would so like more in depth documentaries about what happens in the brain, to make people think as they do. We need to understand and show some compassion to all, regardless of their crime.
I believe that everyone is worthy of help. I believe that most people are able to reform, there are often reasons, for contact offenders, the same as non contact offenders. These root causes are what need to be explored as only be understanding can we stop this behaviour and protect our children and also women from sexual harm.
What is not discussed on this thread so far is the professional bodies that enable this behaviour, and for years must have closed their eyes, as it was not financially beneficial to take action. They should be held to account. We could all see that he was 'creepy', even when I remember him on TV in the 70s I know I would not have wanted to meet him! I am sure that his victims would have displayed some behaviours after his exploitation that were worthy of exploring and they should have been heard at the time.
I would so like more in depth documentaries about what happens in the brain, to make people think as they do. We need to understand and show some compassion to all, regardless of their crime.
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Sorry Daffodil, I did not mean to say that all these crimes should be put under the same category. I believe the majority of non contact cases should be dealt with in a whole different way. The world has changed and not for the better. What I was trying to say was that for every offender, there are loved ones suffering, and making tv programmes does not help them in any way. We have an awful mob mentality.
I am with you in using my voice. I have spoken to many people and Professionals. I was ignorant of so much prior to my husbands offence, and I believe, like you, that we should use our voice, if we are able and are in the right place emotionally. I found it helped me, and still does, to use my experiences to try and better for those that will follow. Someone said that this will change in the future and people will look back and see the injustices. I wish you and your son well. X
I am with you in using my voice. I have spoken to many people and Professionals. I was ignorant of so much prior to my husbands offence, and I believe, like you, that we should use our voice, if we are able and are in the right place emotionally. I found it helped me, and still does, to use my experiences to try and better for those that will follow. Someone said that this will change in the future and people will look back and see the injustices. I wish you and your son well. X
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