Rant - outdated processes/views? Surely things need to change
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Hi, since the beginning I've been angry about nearly every aspect of the knock.
The way social deal with things, the media, the ease of access to illegal materials, the isolation as its so taboo, the non offending families pain, the length of time taken to investigate and also in my opinion the outdated sentencing guides and wording. Then there is the sor, labelling everyone under the same heading and then the future restrictions both of which appear to prevent the ease of redemption and just getting on with life. . (we are still at rui so I've yet to experience some of these things)
I have become a mom from hell with my 2 teenage boys, who I think I may have scared for life with my constant warnings about porn and sending pictures and receiving pictures from future girlfriend/friends and chat sites and earning over what comes up on their social media.
I've not seen any updated statistics but I can only assume by the increased members on the forum that the numbers are still raising and yet still nothing seems to be changing in the way these cases are dealt with. Surely something needs to change?
Sorry Ive ranted, I just feel so helpless for my hubbie, others going through this and so worried my boys will end up in the same situation innocently.
I wish I could shout from the roof tops and educate people but I'm scared of the repercussions so like many say and do nothing, which in turn annoys me.
Sorry again.
The way social deal with things, the media, the ease of access to illegal materials, the isolation as its so taboo, the non offending families pain, the length of time taken to investigate and also in my opinion the outdated sentencing guides and wording. Then there is the sor, labelling everyone under the same heading and then the future restrictions both of which appear to prevent the ease of redemption and just getting on with life. . (we are still at rui so I've yet to experience some of these things)
I have become a mom from hell with my 2 teenage boys, who I think I may have scared for life with my constant warnings about porn and sending pictures and receiving pictures from future girlfriend/friends and chat sites and earning over what comes up on their social media.
I've not seen any updated statistics but I can only assume by the increased members on the forum that the numbers are still raising and yet still nothing seems to be changing in the way these cases are dealt with. Surely something needs to change?
Sorry Ive ranted, I just feel so helpless for my hubbie, others going through this and so worried my boys will end up in the same situation innocently.
I wish I could shout from the roof tops and educate people but I'm scared of the repercussions so like many say and do nothing, which in turn annoys me.
Sorry again.
I really really want to do something, I just don't know what/how or want any more hurt for my family and I think that is how the authorities get away with not changing.
Any solicitors or anyone in the know here that could possible guide or help?
Lost you have done so much I really applaud you and lost and esp Lee your advise and guidance had been greatly appreciated too esp in my darkest days x
Any solicitors or anyone in the know here that could possible guide or help?
Lost you have done so much I really applaud you and lost and esp Lee your advise and guidance had been greatly appreciated too esp in my darkest days x
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A phrase said by the DC in our case - "this stuff should not be this easy to find"
That broke my heart and made me feel sick to my stomach.. what is going wrong and why are our husbands and sons getting mixed up in this so 'easily'.
That broke my heart and made me feel sick to my stomach.. what is going wrong and why are our husbands and sons getting mixed up in this so 'easily'.
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Yes I totally agree with you NMS! How can this be allowed? Our children and families deserve better. I would be willing to join in, but yes would be scared unless I was anonymous. I really wish there was legal guidance on here, it would be so helpful.
My partner is 4 years..yes 4 years..RUI next month..with not a word from the police! how can this be allowed? and in the years I have been on this forum can see nothing has changed with all the heartbreaking posts on here. I know Lee, Tabs, Lost you have all done so much to bring awareness, but it is so frustrating!
Mabel x
My partner is 4 years..yes 4 years..RUI next month..with not a word from the police! how can this be allowed? and in the years I have been on this forum can see nothing has changed with all the heartbreaking posts on here. I know Lee, Tabs, Lost you have all done so much to bring awareness, but it is so frustrating!
Mabel x
Just to echo what everyone else had said here: the current enforcement regime does little to protect children, let alone deter offenders, because it's all so hush hush; there appears to be far less effort going into restricting access to illegal images and apps allowing illegal communication with children than into arresting the low hanging fruit of the people who access it (yes, I know the argument about consumers creating a market/demand for it, but let's face it, it is being aggressively marketed and if it was less available then it would only be consumed by those actively seeking it rather than those who stumble upon it) ; the penalties sem to be less about rehabilitation and more about long lasting punishment and subjugation; the societal punishment due to media fanned public shaming and stigma, placement on the SOR means further restrictions beyond what is in a SHPO or social work demands, in terms of insurance and restrictions on where ex offenders can go, where they can live and who they are allowed to mix with, and whether they can get work; and to top it all off, the families of offenders suffer from all of the above too, even though they have done nothing wrong. It is a devastating and dysfunctional process, and it needs to be exposed for what it is.
I'm right behind the idea of a class action. In terms of lawyers, Helena Kennedy springs to mind, she's a QC, in the House of Lords, has an impressive track record in terms of human rights, women's rights, and miscarriages of justice, and has even written a book on how the British legal system disproportionately punishes women. She has her own website (Helenakennedy.co.uk) and can be contacted through that site. Whether she would be willing to look into this I don't know, but she seems like a good starting point and if she can't, she probably knows someone who might.
I'm right behind the idea of a class action. In terms of lawyers, Helena Kennedy springs to mind, she's a QC, in the House of Lords, has an impressive track record in terms of human rights, women's rights, and miscarriages of justice, and has even written a book on how the British legal system disproportionately punishes women. She has her own website (Helenakennedy.co.uk) and can be contacted through that site. Whether she would be willing to look into this I don't know, but she seems like a good starting point and if she can't, she probably knows someone who might.
Just to add the Media take no accountability in what they post or what is said
Had they posted a copy of my sons charges from the court and comments from the judge it would still be painful but to make such horrific lies and exaggerated the amount of victims it truly does cease to amaze me how this is allowed to happen
As they say it's in the public interest but at least report it accurately and truthfully
Rant over
And I to would be willing to speak up xx
Had they posted a copy of my sons charges from the court and comments from the judge it would still be painful but to make such horrific lies and exaggerated the amount of victims it truly does cease to amaze me how this is allowed to happen
As they say it's in the public interest but at least report it accurately and truthfully
Rant over
And I to would be willing to speak up xx
I just want to say you are all pretty inspirational and I agree with everything you say.
I would like to add however that the underhand and totally disgusting way in Which these vigilante groups operate needs condemning . Lives are ruined for the sake of a few likes and comments which do nothing except elevate their sad ego's. How the police are completely unable to step in and stop their disgusting behaviour is beyond me !
I would like to add however that the underhand and totally disgusting way in Which these vigilante groups operate needs condemning . Lives are ruined for the sake of a few likes and comments which do nothing except elevate their sad ego's. How the police are completely unable to step in and stop their disgusting behaviour is beyond me !
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Totally agree with all that has been said.
The disproportionate punishment and how it varies so much is 1 aspect.
But also, how many of these men have started rehabilitation prior to sentancing and completely changed their lives around yet it almost counts for nothing. Especially afterwards as it appears no matter how well someone does or even if they're assessed as a low risk the label is still attached to them and their families.
I agree there's very high risk people and punishment is very much needed. It should be individually assessed and not so generic that everyone is lumped under the same title.
It affects future family life, their job perspectives and judgement from everyone, nevermind the constant risk! There is no redemption
The disproportionate punishment and how it varies so much is 1 aspect.
But also, how many of these men have started rehabilitation prior to sentancing and completely changed their lives around yet it almost counts for nothing. Especially afterwards as it appears no matter how well someone does or even if they're assessed as a low risk the label is still attached to them and their families.
I agree there's very high risk people and punishment is very much needed. It should be individually assessed and not so generic that everyone is lumped under the same title.
It affects future family life, their job perspectives and judgement from everyone, nevermind the constant risk! There is no redemption
Completely agree with everything that's been said here. I do however agree with Lee that the opinions of the men involved is not likely to be something that can be changed. I think until you've gone through this yourself and lived this nightmare it's only then that you actually realize that not all of these men are the monsters portrayed by media etc. it always astounds me that there is little differentiation between cases, apart from sentencing, but I think we can all agree that that totally depends on the judge on the day! I think my biggest angst no all of this is how the partners, parents, siblings, children are seen as collateral damage and so any old tosh can be written/posted about them on social media without any intervention from the police. I know my family were almost torn apart by what was posted about us :(
Lee,
it would be great if we could get some legal person to take this on in terms of how partners and families are punished and treated for actions that have nothing to do with us and how the affects our human rights, mental health and our futures generally. There are so many of us just on this forum, the numbers should demonstrate it's needed, and we on the forum can only be the tip of a huge iceberg.
it would be great if we could get some legal person to take this on in terms of how partners and families are punished and treated for actions that have nothing to do with us and how the affects our human rights, mental health and our futures generally. There are so many of us just on this forum, the numbers should demonstrate it's needed, and we on the forum can only be the tip of a huge iceberg.
Totally agree with everything said here. I have often thought about writing to the likes of Woman's Hour on Radio 4, or other female journalists with a feminist bias; I haven't done it yet because I haven't found the courage but I do feel that we have a story to tell here that nobody is talking about.
Lola I agree.
I want to speak out as a mother when I'm through the other side... I'm only 3 months post knock so plenty of time to work out how I go about it anonymously X
I want to speak out as a mother when I'm through the other side... I'm only 3 months post knock so plenty of time to work out how I go about it anonymously X
So just to add to my frustrations (and I may be thinking totally wrong here as I'm having a few down days) but I've just seen an article on fb about a current firearms amnesty.
So you could have an illegal firearm (whether that be in your possession intentionally or not) and take it and hand it in with no repercussions but having deeply deleted iioc (potentially not intentionally in the 1st place) and no accessible ones and you can be charged, where is the consistency?
So you could have an illegal firearm (whether that be in your possession intentionally or not) and take it and hand it in with no repercussions but having deeply deleted iioc (potentially not intentionally in the 1st place) and no accessible ones and you can be charged, where is the consistency?
NMS
I think the reason for this is the legislation for Internet crimes pornography and children is based on emotional thinking and moralising rather than logic and rationality.
To be fair, though, once a weapon is handed in, its no longer a danger as its not available for use by anyone. In the eyes of many people, criminals who download iioc are considered to be the danger, or the weapon.
However, the current regime does not do much to protect children. OK, it results in men who are a potential physical danger to children being locked up and/or heavily restricted in their lives for a long or indefinite period (in addition to a lot of others who were never a physical danger to children), but it does little to protect those children whose images are being circulated or protect others from being similarly abused. It's just designed to look like they are doing something effective. As Lost mentioned earlier, the police and courts often talk about prosecutions in terms of numbers of children having been "safeguarded ". Really? I seem to recall reading that the children whose images have been circulated are rarely identified, so how have they been "safeguarded"?
I think the reason for this is the legislation for Internet crimes pornography and children is based on emotional thinking and moralising rather than logic and rationality.
To be fair, though, once a weapon is handed in, its no longer a danger as its not available for use by anyone. In the eyes of many people, criminals who download iioc are considered to be the danger, or the weapon.
However, the current regime does not do much to protect children. OK, it results in men who are a potential physical danger to children being locked up and/or heavily restricted in their lives for a long or indefinite period (in addition to a lot of others who were never a physical danger to children), but it does little to protect those children whose images are being circulated or protect others from being similarly abused. It's just designed to look like they are doing something effective. As Lost mentioned earlier, the police and courts often talk about prosecutions in terms of numbers of children having been "safeguarded ". Really? I seem to recall reading that the children whose images have been circulated are rarely identified, so how have they been "safeguarded"?
Hi. This feed is exactly what I needed to read tonight
The feeling of being punished is so overwhelming at times. While I am carrying on and funding everything, moving house, working full time,looking after an elderly parent my other half spends 22 hours a day laid on his bed watching tv locked up. Yes it's awful but will it achieve anything? Has it actually protected any one of the victims? Has any one who originally created the images been punished. What steps are being taken to rehabilitate offenders
There is so much wrong with the system as it stands. To me the emphasis should be on the victims who are exploited and I totally agree that they are not "safeguarded" at all how can they be if all the resource is concentrated on arrests and convictions?
And as for sentencing it is so varied and inconsistent and depends on 1 person and what their views are on the subject. If probation and barristers are saying this is not a custodial offence and then the judge decides he is making an example on the day life changes forever no preparation. Maybe we were niaive. I can almost smile about what the solicitor said to me 3 weeks after sentencing - the issue was that he said right from the start yes there were probably images on devices but he didn't know for sure so he admitted guilt. He should not have said that should have gone no comment. He had never been in trouble with the police and was told by the police after his arrest if he had a solicitor he would have to wait and it would be ages and didn't he want to just get it over with and leave
Sorry I have ranted. I think it is time for change current methods and processes are not working the number of cases are increasing more victims (including us) are being created. What is being used now is not working and needs to be changed
The feeling of being punished is so overwhelming at times. While I am carrying on and funding everything, moving house, working full time,looking after an elderly parent my other half spends 22 hours a day laid on his bed watching tv locked up. Yes it's awful but will it achieve anything? Has it actually protected any one of the victims? Has any one who originally created the images been punished. What steps are being taken to rehabilitate offenders
There is so much wrong with the system as it stands. To me the emphasis should be on the victims who are exploited and I totally agree that they are not "safeguarded" at all how can they be if all the resource is concentrated on arrests and convictions?
And as for sentencing it is so varied and inconsistent and depends on 1 person and what their views are on the subject. If probation and barristers are saying this is not a custodial offence and then the judge decides he is making an example on the day life changes forever no preparation. Maybe we were niaive. I can almost smile about what the solicitor said to me 3 weeks after sentencing - the issue was that he said right from the start yes there were probably images on devices but he didn't know for sure so he admitted guilt. He should not have said that should have gone no comment. He had never been in trouble with the police and was told by the police after his arrest if he had a solicitor he would have to wait and it would be ages and didn't he want to just get it over with and leave
Sorry I have ranted. I think it is time for change current methods and processes are not working the number of cases are increasing more victims (including us) are being created. What is being used now is not working and needs to be changed
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Morning all. I totally agree that all cases appear to be classed the same. Yet nowhere in the media do they raise the concern about porn addiction as an illness . Its ok to discuss drugs and alcohol. Maybe if it were highlighted it would be identified in people to prevent things happening. Society should recognise the illness and remove the stigma and try to assist.
Isn't this something that should be raised.
Isn't this something that should be raised.
Hi, as many know. If you havent read my story me and my children suffered horrifically at the hands of a vigilante group. The ripple effect from the 'knock' on my children was horrific and may have well caused irreparable damage on my children. Along with the social media posts.
I however wasn't standing for this. Although scared of the backlash at the time I sent a email to my local mp detailing what had happened that night along with a detailed list of what my children now suffer from and may always suffer with.
I detailed that there was no support groups other than Stopitnow and lff and definitely no real guidance or help for my children other than counselling services which could take up to 6 months to even get access to because of the huge backlogs in the system.
I detailed how social care provided no support for me or the children in the days, weeks or month following the knock(even now 2 months on, no real support has been put into place by social care). I had to try and access things myself for my children.
I reported the vigilante group as the main hunter had breached his bail conditions even participating in hunting activity.
I asked in my email for safeguarding of real live children affected by offending parents to be taken into great consideration and not dismissed. I also suggested a code of conduct to be put in place for these hunters to follow(I would like it to stop, however I dont think that's ever going to happen)
I will NOT have my children or myself used as collateral damage for some vigilante groups to get their likes and shares on social media. I hate the fact my children have had to go through what they have but if I can stop any other children being affected in these ways I will do everything in my power.
My local mp responded and was genuinely sympathetic and understood what I was asking and why I would email. He sent it over to the minister of safeguarding and reminded her of laws surrounding and im awaiting her response.
Maybe you could find her email and send your concerns and what's happened to you, to allow them to see the bigger picture. Or even a letter. Everything has to be done confidentially.
I however wasn't standing for this. Although scared of the backlash at the time I sent a email to my local mp detailing what had happened that night along with a detailed list of what my children now suffer from and may always suffer with.
I detailed that there was no support groups other than Stopitnow and lff and definitely no real guidance or help for my children other than counselling services which could take up to 6 months to even get access to because of the huge backlogs in the system.
I detailed how social care provided no support for me or the children in the days, weeks or month following the knock(even now 2 months on, no real support has been put into place by social care). I had to try and access things myself for my children.
I reported the vigilante group as the main hunter had breached his bail conditions even participating in hunting activity.
I asked in my email for safeguarding of real live children affected by offending parents to be taken into great consideration and not dismissed. I also suggested a code of conduct to be put in place for these hunters to follow(I would like it to stop, however I dont think that's ever going to happen)
I will NOT have my children or myself used as collateral damage for some vigilante groups to get their likes and shares on social media. I hate the fact my children have had to go through what they have but if I can stop any other children being affected in these ways I will do everything in my power.
My local mp responded and was genuinely sympathetic and understood what I was asking and why I would email. He sent it over to the minister of safeguarding and reminded her of laws surrounding and im awaiting her response.
Maybe you could find her email and send your concerns and what's happened to you, to allow them to see the bigger picture. Or even a letter. Everything has to be done confidentially.
Gemsie - you are a strong and brilliant person!! You have stood up and said no for the sake of your children!
Your strength is inspiring X
Your strength is inspiring X
Brilliant Gemsie! I don't have children but I suffered as a result of live-streaming and I managed after bland email responses, to collar my MP after a meeting, in person, he then took me seriously! He was successful in having a debate in parliament before Christmas about families being impacted by this behaviour and crime.
I appreciate that not everyone feels able to reach out to their MPs, but a by product of the vigilante hit is we have nothing to hide!
For those that feel strong enough, when the time is right for you, and it may never be, please talk to your MP or any other influential person. I have written to many abs had no response, but one day my letters/emails may surface! I hope so, as I am willing to speak out. The way we are all treated is shameful.
I am full of admiration for you, I honestly don't know if I could have looked after anyone after this massive trauma. I had enough of a job trying to get myself out of bed! xxx
I appreciate that not everyone feels able to reach out to their MPs, but a by product of the vigilante hit is we have nothing to hide!
For those that feel strong enough, when the time is right for you, and it may never be, please talk to your MP or any other influential person. I have written to many abs had no response, but one day my letters/emails may surface! I hope so, as I am willing to speak out. The way we are all treated is shameful.
I am full of admiration for you, I honestly don't know if I could have looked after anyone after this massive trauma. I had enough of a job trying to get myself out of bed! xxx
I am in agreement and working on our voices being heard! Lots of lines of enquiry seeing what's possible! Spurred on further by yes another smashed window I can't even leave my house ????
18 months of hell and from my experience 4 ruined lives.
I don't so much care about the money I care about the innocence stolen from my beautful kids and none of us feel safe anywhere!
love and thoughts to everyone!
18 months of hell and from my experience 4 ruined lives.
I don't so much care about the money I care about the innocence stolen from my beautful kids and none of us feel safe anywhere!
love and thoughts to everyone!
Society as a whole read only what they want to read. Peodaphilia is such a emotive subject which doesnt help. I as I write this am so ashamed of myself. I was that person to watch these vigilante videos and sat there thinking the worst of these men.
It's only because I'm now witnessing it first hand have I realised it isn't always so clear cut. These vigilantes took over my life, the left me crippled with fear, anxiety and distrusting everyone. Theyve left my children with so many mental health issues. As a police officer stated to me only last week - they don't safeguard children, what they are potentially doing is making the situation worse.
Social care nearly sent me over the edge with their damning assessment that made me look like some pyschotic parent who was going to kill us all because I'd had a extremely neglectful upbringing which obviously in their eyes made me unable to make positive decisions (although my eldest is 18)
The police, although so far have been good with us I don't think they understand the impact of waiting and waiting for months on end to hear from them.
Our children are innocent, we are innocent!!!!
As I said I will not allow mine or my childrens experience to go in vain. I will not allow a vigilante group to use us as their collateral for their own ego boosts.
I'm not good in the law department but I will write as many emails to as many people I can to make them listen.
It's only because I'm now witnessing it first hand have I realised it isn't always so clear cut. These vigilantes took over my life, the left me crippled with fear, anxiety and distrusting everyone. Theyve left my children with so many mental health issues. As a police officer stated to me only last week - they don't safeguard children, what they are potentially doing is making the situation worse.
Social care nearly sent me over the edge with their damning assessment that made me look like some pyschotic parent who was going to kill us all because I'd had a extremely neglectful upbringing which obviously in their eyes made me unable to make positive decisions (although my eldest is 18)
The police, although so far have been good with us I don't think they understand the impact of waiting and waiting for months on end to hear from them.
Our children are innocent, we are innocent!!!!
As I said I will not allow mine or my childrens experience to go in vain. I will not allow a vigilante group to use us as their collateral for their own ego boosts.
I'm not good in the law department but I will write as many emails to as many people I can to make them listen.
I'm lucky being surrounded by people we've lived near for a long time. I was full of emotion when one of them stepped forward on behalf of everyone to offer their support. Ok we get the odd stare but my goodness I feel for you families that have had to put up with the fear of aggression towards you.
I don't wear my rose tinted spectacles though. Each morning as I open my door it crosses my mind and I check my house/ car and that's 18 months + Down the line and my son in prison. It's so unfair/wrong to have this weight as well as everything else on our shoulders.
My heart really goes out to you ladies. Keep strong as you remember you are innocent. It's just so unfair these misled people don't see it....... :(
I don't wear my rose tinted spectacles though. Each morning as I open my door it crosses my mind and I check my house/ car and that's 18 months + Down the line and my son in prison. It's so unfair/wrong to have this weight as well as everything else on our shoulders.
My heart really goes out to you ladies. Keep strong as you remember you are innocent. It's just so unfair these misled people don't see it....... :(
Oh Lanny, that's terrible. You should not have to deal with broken windows. I hope the police are dealing with this.
I remember being scared stiff of damage to my house and car, we had cameras at the back anyway, which I was constantly checking, I had neighbours too regularly checking for me. They were outraged that I was being made to suffer more, and of course scared of damage to their property too!
The Vigilante Groups Facebook posts (there were a few) in the main said 'leave property business and family alone', but they did not delete the comments which went to town. I was too scared to sleep at home as I was living alone, and I the became too scared to stay at the house during the day too when a comment gave every detail imaginable, my Goddaughter phoned to say I was in danger! I fled! How can it be than when we are at our lowest and needing our home as a peaceful place to heal that this cyber bullying is allowed, and even worse dealt with as acceptable 'collateral damage'.
I recognise that I was lucky in that I had no damage and no direct threats etc. I quickly had a support network who stepped up to protect me from gossips etc and now I can go about my business normally, but I will say that it has become normal for me to be on high alert and I avoid people who I know wrote comments on the Facebook post , so yes, this has a lasting effect.
I truly believe that in a few years time society will look back and wonder why this awful behaviour is acceptable. The damage to the men concerned and the family, the the ripple effect to extended family and friends, is massive.
Keep on fighting, I intend to. I will not allow this to continue. The vigilante groups and decoys need help too, there must be real trauma in their lives to make them act the way they do. I also think that it should be illegal to pretend to be a child.....
The whole justice system too is out dated and short of resources, so I think on line crime is an cheap 'crime' to solve. Our men bear the brunt of that. The evidence is clear cut so easy to satisfy the public on numbers of arrests and prison sentences.sorry, I could keep in going on the things that are 'wrong'.....xxx
I remember being scared stiff of damage to my house and car, we had cameras at the back anyway, which I was constantly checking, I had neighbours too regularly checking for me. They were outraged that I was being made to suffer more, and of course scared of damage to their property too!
The Vigilante Groups Facebook posts (there were a few) in the main said 'leave property business and family alone', but they did not delete the comments which went to town. I was too scared to sleep at home as I was living alone, and I the became too scared to stay at the house during the day too when a comment gave every detail imaginable, my Goddaughter phoned to say I was in danger! I fled! How can it be than when we are at our lowest and needing our home as a peaceful place to heal that this cyber bullying is allowed, and even worse dealt with as acceptable 'collateral damage'.
I recognise that I was lucky in that I had no damage and no direct threats etc. I quickly had a support network who stepped up to protect me from gossips etc and now I can go about my business normally, but I will say that it has become normal for me to be on high alert and I avoid people who I know wrote comments on the Facebook post , so yes, this has a lasting effect.
I truly believe that in a few years time society will look back and wonder why this awful behaviour is acceptable. The damage to the men concerned and the family, the the ripple effect to extended family and friends, is massive.
Keep on fighting, I intend to. I will not allow this to continue. The vigilante groups and decoys need help too, there must be real trauma in their lives to make them act the way they do. I also think that it should be illegal to pretend to be a child.....
The whole justice system too is out dated and short of resources, so I think on line crime is an cheap 'crime' to solve. Our men bear the brunt of that. The evidence is clear cut so easy to satisfy the public on numbers of arrests and prison sentences.sorry, I could keep in going on the things that are 'wrong'.....xxx
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Hi tabs, the police well it is mixed messages all round there! They tell me j can report it and then tell I am wasting police time and as a brown women I should no better, then in same sentence followed if you feel threatened call us and at that moment 2 days ago I absolutely lost my composure. I didn't scream and shout (I was doing so in my mind) I simply held up my hands and said right..."get your facts straight could you please allow me a moment to just step back because I feel your words and bahaviour shows families, kids and wives just like myself nothing but unkindness, contempt and lack of empathy and compassion...and stop giving out mixed messages do what you need to do take the cctv and then may I have your constable number and name and I would kindly appreciate it if you would then leave my property all while full of tears!" I have no idea how I managed to deal with that the way I did with the way I felt but I did for that I am proud of myself! I phoned victim impact as I am supposed to be put down as one as the kids dad posted images of me without my knowledge and consent this putting me a survivor of horrendous sexual abuse into a situation I shouldn't and wouldn't put myself in! Safe to say victim impact are appalled with my constabulary and have stated your directly knvokved I said yes and to add insault to injury the so called "victim" decoy vigillante put themselves knowingly in that "child" role situation so the ima or would this be taken on knowingly and phsychologically impact would be a different to myself I didn't chose this and I have been ignored and left! This information and the abuse and harassment we have received has gone to the prosecution and being investigated! It's not much but something... I will join you all to callaborate change and to get our voice heard xx
Luckily for me and my children we've suffered no damage to the house or car. I've heard on the grapevine that people were intending to show up (luckily they didnt) . My children have had comments directed at them and when I do actually nip out ( rare occasions) I see people looking at me abit strangely.
Vigilante groups should be banned, however can't see that ever happening. Maybe, just maybe if many women and children speak out we can at least get some code of conduct put in place.
These groups have had no safeguarding training put in place and many of them boast about the fact they offer aftercare for the non offenders. Some of them might, however the group that came to my house harassed me via phone calls/messages for a week after. That certainly was not aftercare.
The group also made lies up in their page because our daughter wouldn't allow partner to go out to them, they didn't get their likes and shares on social media so it infuriated them.
Vigilante groups should be banned, however can't see that ever happening. Maybe, just maybe if many women and children speak out we can at least get some code of conduct put in place.
These groups have had no safeguarding training put in place and many of them boast about the fact they offer aftercare for the non offenders. Some of them might, however the group that came to my house harassed me via phone calls/messages for a week after. That certainly was not aftercare.
The group also made lies up in their page because our daughter wouldn't allow partner to go out to them, they didn't get their likes and shares on social media so it infuriated them.
Lanny, wow, you should be so very proud of yourself! Those officers had food for thought! You are definitely a victim, and I am so sorry for what you are going through. keep strong! xxxx
Sorry Lee- I didn't mean to offend talking about vigilantes.
This was just my thought process. I understand what the thread is about and completely agree.
We as non offending partners and our children are irreparably affected. As stated by other some are 18mths - years from the knock and still experience horrific side effects.
In my email to my local mp I did state how as non offenders we are treated appallingly by all involved in such instances. This does need to be addressed and STOPPED.
This was just my thought process. I understand what the thread is about and completely agree.
We as non offending partners and our children are irreparably affected. As stated by other some are 18mths - years from the knock and still experience horrific side effects.
In my email to my local mp I did state how as non offenders we are treated appallingly by all involved in such instances. This does need to be addressed and STOPPED.
As it stands vigilantes or no vigilantes I feel and connect with each and every single person that has found themselves here. Like we all say one complaint at a time and maybe one day we will be heard.
Thanks for all the support I have contually found here, has made me feel less alone in my darkest of thoughts and wondering if there is life beyond the limbo that seems my current station in life. I am just finishing a undergrad degree in psychology through this tough time.
This situation for us all has made me consider take a turn to take this knowledge into my masters and research. Also taking some time for work within a victim support capacity!
All enjoy your weekend and be kind to yourself! we are all better than the box society judges us by, we are partners, parents, students etc... and survivors of societies misgivings x
**I am learning a lot from your experience and I am truly thankful, sometimes in terms of psychology and identity especially societal collective identity these label are extremely difficult to shake, this years experience and studies have taught me that** xxx
Thanks for all the support I have contually found here, has made me feel less alone in my darkest of thoughts and wondering if there is life beyond the limbo that seems my current station in life. I am just finishing a undergrad degree in psychology through this tough time.
This situation for us all has made me consider take a turn to take this knowledge into my masters and research. Also taking some time for work within a victim support capacity!
All enjoy your weekend and be kind to yourself! we are all better than the box society judges us by, we are partners, parents, students etc... and survivors of societies misgivings x
**I am learning a lot from your experience and I am truly thankful, sometimes in terms of psychology and identity especially societal collective identity these label are extremely difficult to shake, this years experience and studies have taught me that** xxx
No Lee not at all. I genuinely wasn't offended.
I'm not good with laws or human rights, however I'm happy to help where needed to help make people aware of the everlasting damage done to us as innocents xx
I'm not good with laws or human rights, however I'm happy to help where needed to help make people aware of the everlasting damage done to us as innocents xx
You didn't offend me Lee! I thought you were reminding us to keep on topic though! X
Everyone, regardless of circumstances and regardless of vigilante experience suffers hugely. And that is not right. The vigilante experience as we all know adds yet another layer of trauma. In a way it has benefits too, in that we do not have to keep secrets, as it's all out there! Just means we have to deal with everything all at once...which is a massive shock, and life altering, and to have to go through that without support from the professionals dealing with the case is, in my view, entirely wrong! X
Everyone, regardless of circumstances and regardless of vigilante experience suffers hugely. And that is not right. The vigilante experience as we all know adds yet another layer of trauma. In a way it has benefits too, in that we do not have to keep secrets, as it's all out there! Just means we have to deal with everything all at once...which is a massive shock, and life altering, and to have to go through that without support from the professionals dealing with the case is, in my view, entirely wrong! X
I agree with all that and have believe despite CBT, antidepressants etc I will never fully recover from the trauma suffered. I am furious with the media and society that my ability to work in the NHS during a pandemic has been compromised by my personal details, photographs, address etc being plastered all over the internet and regional press. My husband no longer works but I do and sadly I am near the end of a 40 year career that I cannot fully practice at my best level. In my case I have to question the media coverage as "being in the public interest", as far as I am concerned the public have been denied my presence and ability to practice because now I am fearful, humiliated, anxious, depressed and have lost all my confidence in every aspect of life. We are trying to rebuild our lives but we have both realised it is much harder for me than my husband. My son and daughter-in-law are haunted by the social service intrusion in their lives and have been left distraught that SW involvement will always show on my grandchild's medical records. I genuinely feel our situation would not have been as bad if the media had not exposed our details, my husband has been sentenced and punished for his offence, I might as well have stood in that dock with him and received a warning from the judge what my sentence would be too!!!
I would dearly love to campaign for family victims but have no idea where to start, if anyone is prepared to start a campaign please count me in. Xxx
I would dearly love to campaign for family victims but have no idea where to start, if anyone is prepared to start a campaign please count me in. Xxx
What a sad story Katie. I too got pushed out a long career. I should have retired with cards and flowers, instead I felt a liability and was 'kindly' / financially cast out, thanks to my sons crime.
it's really wrong.......
it's really wrong.......
@lost yes Victoria Aitkin in the person you need! Minister of safeguarding and this was ho she responded to me last year:
Thank you for your email of 25 January to the Ministry of Justice on behalf of your constituent, Mrs *********, regarding sexual predator vigilante groups. Your correspondence has been forwarded to the Home Office and I am replying as the Minister for Safeguarding.
I am sorry to hear about the instances your constituent describes and the trauma she and her children experienced following her husband’s arrest for child sexual abuse offences.
I would strongly encourage Mrs ******, to report the harassment she has experienced to the police, if she has not already done so. She can do this by visiting her local police station or by calling the non-emergency number, 101. No one should feel threatened in their own home and if Mrs ******** feels that either herself or her children are unsafe she should report the matter immediately by calling 999.
Whilst we recognise that the issue of child protection understandably matters greatly to the public, we cannot condone the fear, harassment and violence which can be caused by activist groups, such as those described by your constituent. It is important that the public allow the police and law enforcement agencies to do their vital work by not taking the law into their own hands. Law enforcement agencies in the UK are currently arresting around 850 individuals and safeguarding around 1,000 children each month through their efforts to combat online child sexual abuse.
The Home Office does not currently have any plans to regulate these groups, nor to introduce legislation to specifically criminalise their actions. However, I would like to reassure Mrs ******, if the actions of these groups fall outside of the law they can be dealt with, and are dealt with, through existing legislation.
I am sorry to hear of the impact that these experiences have had on Mrs ******'s children. We recognise that a parent being arrested can be deeply upsetting for a child and can have a negative impact on their mental health and wellbeing. Through the Keeping Children Safe in Education statutory guidance for schools, we have set out that staff should consider the additional needs of children with parents in prison, on remand or accused of crimes. The guidance signposts schools to the National Information Centre on Children of Offenders (NICCO) website which provides specialist advice and resources to support professionals working with offenders and their children, to help mitigate negative consequences for those children.
Children of offenders are not given victim status in so far as it concerns the Code of Practice for Victims of Crime (Victims’ Code) or referral to victim support services. This is because in both cases the definition of a victim is a person who has suffered harm, including physical, mental or emotional harm or economic loss which was directly caused by a criminal offence; or a close relative of a person whose death was directly caused by a criminal offence. It therefore does not include family members of an offender if they have not directly been harmed by the offence committed.
However, I would like to make Mrs ***** aware that the Lucy Faithful Foundation also provides a confidential helpline and a range of online support resources, not only for individuals who commit offences but also those known to them: https://get- help.stopitnow.org.uk/family-and-friends/family-and-friends-intro.
Further support is also available through Victim Support, an organisation offering support to children and young people who have been affected by crime. It also offers resources for parents of children affected by crime. Further information is available at: https://www.victimsupport.org.uk/help-and-support/young-victims-crime.
I would like to thank you for writing on behalf of Mrs ******* on this important matter.
the above is the response copy and pasted straight from email she sent to my mp with my name where **** are
xx
Thank you for your email of 25 January to the Ministry of Justice on behalf of your constituent, Mrs *********, regarding sexual predator vigilante groups. Your correspondence has been forwarded to the Home Office and I am replying as the Minister for Safeguarding.
I am sorry to hear about the instances your constituent describes and the trauma she and her children experienced following her husband’s arrest for child sexual abuse offences.
I would strongly encourage Mrs ******, to report the harassment she has experienced to the police, if she has not already done so. She can do this by visiting her local police station or by calling the non-emergency number, 101. No one should feel threatened in their own home and if Mrs ******** feels that either herself or her children are unsafe she should report the matter immediately by calling 999.
Whilst we recognise that the issue of child protection understandably matters greatly to the public, we cannot condone the fear, harassment and violence which can be caused by activist groups, such as those described by your constituent. It is important that the public allow the police and law enforcement agencies to do their vital work by not taking the law into their own hands. Law enforcement agencies in the UK are currently arresting around 850 individuals and safeguarding around 1,000 children each month through their efforts to combat online child sexual abuse.
The Home Office does not currently have any plans to regulate these groups, nor to introduce legislation to specifically criminalise their actions. However, I would like to reassure Mrs ******, if the actions of these groups fall outside of the law they can be dealt with, and are dealt with, through existing legislation.
I am sorry to hear of the impact that these experiences have had on Mrs ******'s children. We recognise that a parent being arrested can be deeply upsetting for a child and can have a negative impact on their mental health and wellbeing. Through the Keeping Children Safe in Education statutory guidance for schools, we have set out that staff should consider the additional needs of children with parents in prison, on remand or accused of crimes. The guidance signposts schools to the National Information Centre on Children of Offenders (NICCO) website which provides specialist advice and resources to support professionals working with offenders and their children, to help mitigate negative consequences for those children.
Children of offenders are not given victim status in so far as it concerns the Code of Practice for Victims of Crime (Victims’ Code) or referral to victim support services. This is because in both cases the definition of a victim is a person who has suffered harm, including physical, mental or emotional harm or economic loss which was directly caused by a criminal offence; or a close relative of a person whose death was directly caused by a criminal offence. It therefore does not include family members of an offender if they have not directly been harmed by the offence committed.
However, I would like to make Mrs ***** aware that the Lucy Faithful Foundation also provides a confidential helpline and a range of online support resources, not only for individuals who commit offences but also those known to them: https://get- help.stopitnow.org.uk/family-and-friends/family-and-friends-intro.
Further support is also available through Victim Support, an organisation offering support to children and young people who have been affected by crime. It also offers resources for parents of children affected by crime. Further information is available at: https://www.victimsupport.org.uk/help-and-support/young-victims-crime.
I would like to thank you for writing on behalf of Mrs ******* on this important matter.
the above is the response copy and pasted straight from email she sent to my mp with my name where **** are
xx
Thanks Lost 123 and others for all you are doing to highlight the situation of non offenders who are adversely affected by the knock and vigilante stings. You are doing great work.
Lost123, your focus firstly on the children affected is absolutely the right one, as they have no voice or agency in the situation at all, and so are completely powerless. They need people to fight on their behalf! The rest of us as adult partners, parents and friends of offenders do at least have our own power and control in this situation, even though it sometimes doesn't feel like like it, and the exercising of that power and control feels so hard at times.
I have been reflecting that at the moment I am in an in-between zone, still under investigation, still operating under bail conditions (inconvenent but workable at the moment), and very few people know about my partners situation. I'm thinking that come the court case (he will be pleading ng) that will be the time when everything becomes public, and I will get to exert my personal power and control, because everything will be laid bare. I am fearful, but in the manner of "let the battle begin, and may the best person win!". It will be a personal, sometimes metaphorical battle, and I am determined to be still standing at the end of it. But knowing that everyone in this group is standing together really helps.
Lost123, your focus firstly on the children affected is absolutely the right one, as they have no voice or agency in the situation at all, and so are completely powerless. They need people to fight on their behalf! The rest of us as adult partners, parents and friends of offenders do at least have our own power and control in this situation, even though it sometimes doesn't feel like like it, and the exercising of that power and control feels so hard at times.
I have been reflecting that at the moment I am in an in-between zone, still under investigation, still operating under bail conditions (inconvenent but workable at the moment), and very few people know about my partners situation. I'm thinking that come the court case (he will be pleading ng) that will be the time when everything becomes public, and I will get to exert my personal power and control, because everything will be laid bare. I am fearful, but in the manner of "let the battle begin, and may the best person win!". It will be a personal, sometimes metaphorical battle, and I am determined to be still standing at the end of it. But knowing that everyone in this group is standing together really helps.
Very reassuring to read Lost x