Feel like I'm being forced to make choices without having all the information
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I'm so pleased that this forum exists, makes me feel like maybe I'm not completely bonkers.
Very briefly - back in Sept, husband got the knock, arrested on intelligence of distribution iioc. We have a son together and at that time I was 16 weeks pregnant with our second child (now a healthy, happy, baby girl of 3 months). At the time he was ROI and could see our son under my supervision, i.e. he moved out to his parent's and spent days at home with us so our son knew no different. When bail conditions were lifted he moved back home and nothing more happened until the midwife (rightly) raised concern and then social services started their assessment. Husband had made a gpod start on specialist therapy and made some really positive changes in his life. We were open and honest throughout and the SW made it seem like the things I had in place the safeguarding were appropriate and that I was a protective factor. Come the end of that assessment they completely flipped and changed their minds, said my husband had to move our (which he did immediately), taking us to court and threatening to take the children off me. The SWET report was horrendous and just full of lies. Children were put on interim care order and home placement with me. I had daily unannounced visits to satisfy that I was not allowing husband back in the house.
Current circumstances are that we are separated and he has supervised access to the children, supervised by his parents. Been to court a few times without too much moving along other than it being stepped down to supervision order. Doing everything we can to prove ourselves, sticking to written agreements religiously etc.
Police concluded NFA back in April but this has had no effect on family court.
Specialist risk assessment to be done, just waiting on dates. My position is that i want the outcome of that before i make any long term decisions. But getting pushed by SW and even my solicitor to say that I would never reenter a relationship with him. SW even came today and said 'we think the outcome will be negative'.
I just feel a bit like I'm having mind games played with me. My number one priority is my children and their safety. I also need to consider their happiness and I know that my children would love to have him home so if that can be done in a safe way (as deemed by an expert) I would like to have that as an option. But I'm just being made to feel like I'm crazy for considering it.
And right at this moment I'm feeling like there's not much hope for the future, I think I need some idea of how this could play out- either as hope or to prepare myself. Does anybody have experience of these specialist assessments, and what impact did their outcome have on your lives?
Thanks in advance
Very briefly - back in Sept, husband got the knock, arrested on intelligence of distribution iioc. We have a son together and at that time I was 16 weeks pregnant with our second child (now a healthy, happy, baby girl of 3 months). At the time he was ROI and could see our son under my supervision, i.e. he moved out to his parent's and spent days at home with us so our son knew no different. When bail conditions were lifted he moved back home and nothing more happened until the midwife (rightly) raised concern and then social services started their assessment. Husband had made a gpod start on specialist therapy and made some really positive changes in his life. We were open and honest throughout and the SW made it seem like the things I had in place the safeguarding were appropriate and that I was a protective factor. Come the end of that assessment they completely flipped and changed their minds, said my husband had to move our (which he did immediately), taking us to court and threatening to take the children off me. The SWET report was horrendous and just full of lies. Children were put on interim care order and home placement with me. I had daily unannounced visits to satisfy that I was not allowing husband back in the house.
Current circumstances are that we are separated and he has supervised access to the children, supervised by his parents. Been to court a few times without too much moving along other than it being stepped down to supervision order. Doing everything we can to prove ourselves, sticking to written agreements religiously etc.
Police concluded NFA back in April but this has had no effect on family court.
Specialist risk assessment to be done, just waiting on dates. My position is that i want the outcome of that before i make any long term decisions. But getting pushed by SW and even my solicitor to say that I would never reenter a relationship with him. SW even came today and said 'we think the outcome will be negative'.
I just feel a bit like I'm having mind games played with me. My number one priority is my children and their safety. I also need to consider their happiness and I know that my children would love to have him home so if that can be done in a safe way (as deemed by an expert) I would like to have that as an option. But I'm just being made to feel like I'm crazy for considering it.
And right at this moment I'm feeling like there's not much hope for the future, I think I need some idea of how this could play out- either as hope or to prepare myself. Does anybody have experience of these specialist assessments, and what impact did their outcome have on your lives?
Thanks in advance
Thanks for your reply Lee - your support gives me a feeling of power, something I've not felt in months!
The assessor hasn't been selected yet, I have emailed my solicitor to request that enquiries are made with Steve Lowe, so thank you for that suggestion. Looking at his website, his values really resonate.
I'm feeling desperate for the assessment to happen soon as possible so we can have some change but obviously it needs to be done as thoroughly and expertly as possible so may be good to hold out for a particularly good assessor?! LFF have said their soonest assessment would be mid October now, with report another 4 or 5 weeks after, I'm not sure the judge will go for that. There are definitely some advantages of being in the court arena.
I know someone that has been considered was Johanna Simpson Blake but I can't find much about her online so if anyone has any experience with her please do get in touch.
I have in fact posted on the FRG forum today so hopefully will get some responses on there too.
The assessor hasn't been selected yet, I have emailed my solicitor to request that enquiries are made with Steve Lowe, so thank you for that suggestion. Looking at his website, his values really resonate.
I'm feeling desperate for the assessment to happen soon as possible so we can have some change but obviously it needs to be done as thoroughly and expertly as possible so may be good to hold out for a particularly good assessor?! LFF have said their soonest assessment would be mid October now, with report another 4 or 5 weeks after, I'm not sure the judge will go for that. There are definitely some advantages of being in the court arena.
I know someone that has been considered was Johanna Simpson Blake but I can't find much about her online so if anyone has any experience with her please do get in touch.
I have in fact posted on the FRG forum today so hopefully will get some responses on there too.
Hi Bluebell2022
I am so sorry to hear your story and tbh this is how SS played with us. They were good in the beginning and then they changed their mind at the end of person posing risk assessment and turned our life upside down. I would say just stick with your decision, SS put this pressure on people because specialist assessments are expensive and they don't like spending money. The only different in our stories are that we took SS to court as they were forcing me to leave my husband and din't want to do the specialist assessment as they already knew it will be negative.
We had our assessment done by Dr Craig. He was really good and non judgemental. He is very experienced in sexual offenses and even wrote books on it
Although the specialist needs to be chosen and agreed by all the parties .I believe the CAFCASS would have more say in it for who should be the one doing it.
Are they doing assessment only for your partner or on you too? In our case it was done on both of us.
I am so sorry to hear your story and tbh this is how SS played with us. They were good in the beginning and then they changed their mind at the end of person posing risk assessment and turned our life upside down. I would say just stick with your decision, SS put this pressure on people because specialist assessments are expensive and they don't like spending money. The only different in our stories are that we took SS to court as they were forcing me to leave my husband and din't want to do the specialist assessment as they already knew it will be negative.
We had our assessment done by Dr Craig. He was really good and non judgemental. He is very experienced in sexual offenses and even wrote books on it
Although the specialist needs to be chosen and agreed by all the parties .I believe the CAFCASS would have more say in it for who should be the one doing it.
Are they doing assessment only for your partner or on you too? In our case it was done on both of us.
Thank you both
I think the assessment will be on me too, to assess my capacity to safeguard. I speak with my solicitor tomorrow so will check that's the plan as I really do want to be assessed.
Can I ask how you both found the assessment process? Did it feel fair? What were your outcomes? (If you don't mind me asking). Did the SS then back off after the assessment?
I really do welcome a specialist assessment, rather than any random social worker charging in and making up a decision based on little fact or expertise. Due to staff changes, we're on our 4th social worker now...how are they meant to be of any use when they hardly know you and make zero effort to know the husband? I try to be as considered as I can be, almost making excuses for them (heavy work loads, competing pressures etc) but when the new one talks to me like I'm her best friend 'so sorry for you, can't begin to imagine how you feel etc' then comes to my home and gives me her opinion on the way things are going i.e. predicting a negative assessment (whilst clearly still having little idea of our case) then I really can't help but feel like the aim is to manipulate me. Makes me so angry. And all the while I have to smile and nod for fear of being deemed as uncooperative. Just turns it all into a game. But it's not a game, these are OUR LIVES and that just feels a bit like that's forgotten about. They're reckless with the power that they wield.
I think the assessment will be on me too, to assess my capacity to safeguard. I speak with my solicitor tomorrow so will check that's the plan as I really do want to be assessed.
Can I ask how you both found the assessment process? Did it feel fair? What were your outcomes? (If you don't mind me asking). Did the SS then back off after the assessment?
I really do welcome a specialist assessment, rather than any random social worker charging in and making up a decision based on little fact or expertise. Due to staff changes, we're on our 4th social worker now...how are they meant to be of any use when they hardly know you and make zero effort to know the husband? I try to be as considered as I can be, almost making excuses for them (heavy work loads, competing pressures etc) but when the new one talks to me like I'm her best friend 'so sorry for you, can't begin to imagine how you feel etc' then comes to my home and gives me her opinion on the way things are going i.e. predicting a negative assessment (whilst clearly still having little idea of our case) then I really can't help but feel like the aim is to manipulate me. Makes me so angry. And all the while I have to smile and nod for fear of being deemed as uncooperative. Just turns it all into a game. But it's not a game, these are OUR LIVES and that just feels a bit like that's forgotten about. They're reckless with the power that they wield.
Please please please make sure the specialist is agreed between all parties before going ahead. You may have seen my posts about the Ness my partner is in at the moment with family court. Long story short CAFCASS gave a vauge criteria for an assessment, were not consulted by the judge on who to go for to do the assessment, so when my partner coughed up 2.5k CAFCASS threw their toys out the pram saying they didn't think the specialist was qualified enough and that he didn't assess the impact to the kids (this was not spelled out in their request for an assessment).
We have the 'final' hearing soon so I can't say the overall outc of the assessment in regards to court judgment.
I did read the assessment and it is always a hard pill to swallow to see that my partner cannot be deem totally safe (he was convicted more than two years ago). He is still at risk of slipping back into iioc due to his addictive nature, but it is difficult to state if he has a genuine interest in children. But overall the assessor believes me partner is a very low risk to his kids in a supervises setting in a contact centre, and low risk in a supervised setting in the community. CAFCASS have basically said they don't think the assessment is at all valid.
These assessments are so expensive. We were quoted from 1.5 to 2.5k. turns out the judge never asked CAFCASS who to go for our of a list of 5 specialists.
We have the 'final' hearing soon so I can't say the overall outc of the assessment in regards to court judgment.
I did read the assessment and it is always a hard pill to swallow to see that my partner cannot be deem totally safe (he was convicted more than two years ago). He is still at risk of slipping back into iioc due to his addictive nature, but it is difficult to state if he has a genuine interest in children. But overall the assessor believes me partner is a very low risk to his kids in a supervises setting in a contact centre, and low risk in a supervised setting in the community. CAFCASS have basically said they don't think the assessment is at all valid.
These assessments are so expensive. We were quoted from 1.5 to 2.5k. turns out the judge never asked CAFCASS who to go for our of a list of 5 specialists.
Hi Bluebell2022
The assessment was good. It was very fair and we passed with flying colors. Mine was done to assess my protective capabilities and my knowledge about the risk and my understanding about the offenses.
In assessment the specialist recommended short courses for both me and my partner in terms for him to move back home which we done with safer lives and the courses were really good.
Assessment and courses were all paid my SS as court made them to pay for it due to the mess they caused with our case. Ss didn't back off straight away even after the positive assessment as they wanted to disregard the assessment and went to ask more questions to specialist but luckily we were in court arena so they couldn't do much. My husband moved back home towards the end of court process and SS closed our case for good 6 months after court process finish.
I would recommend you to read all the police documents about your partner case before the assessment. If you don't have them court will provide them to you as they will request them from police anyways to give copy to specialist. Also if with nfa your partner will always be a risk to your kids but it's a manageable risk so you can make a safety plan and can pass it to specialist beforehand via your lawyer to show you are being proactive. I made a safety plan which SS didn't even bother to look but I made my lawyer to send it to specialist and that worked out well for us.
We then also created a well drafted safety plan with saferlives which was well appreciated my judge and judge accepted our safety plan over the rigid one created by SS.
Let me know if you have any more questions on assement. May be we can chat on mumsnet.
The assessment was good. It was very fair and we passed with flying colors. Mine was done to assess my protective capabilities and my knowledge about the risk and my understanding about the offenses.
In assessment the specialist recommended short courses for both me and my partner in terms for him to move back home which we done with safer lives and the courses were really good.
Assessment and courses were all paid my SS as court made them to pay for it due to the mess they caused with our case. Ss didn't back off straight away even after the positive assessment as they wanted to disregard the assessment and went to ask more questions to specialist but luckily we were in court arena so they couldn't do much. My husband moved back home towards the end of court process and SS closed our case for good 6 months after court process finish.
I would recommend you to read all the police documents about your partner case before the assessment. If you don't have them court will provide them to you as they will request them from police anyways to give copy to specialist. Also if with nfa your partner will always be a risk to your kids but it's a manageable risk so you can make a safety plan and can pass it to specialist beforehand via your lawyer to show you are being proactive. I made a safety plan which SS didn't even bother to look but I made my lawyer to send it to specialist and that worked out well for us.
We then also created a well drafted safety plan with saferlives which was well appreciated my judge and judge accepted our safety plan over the rigid one created by SS.
Let me know if you have any more questions on assement. May be we can chat on mumsnet.
Majestictopaz - sounds like such a mess with the arrangement of your assessment(s), like you need any further complications! I really hope your final hearing can be positive for you.
Hopingforbest - I'm so pleased to hear that you had a positive outcome and that positive outcomes are a possibility. And I'm definitely pleased we're in the court arena (something I never thought I'd say!). I'd really appreciate chatting on mumsnet. I'll set up an account now. What is your chat name on there please?
And just as a general observation -there seems to be a lot of variability in what is paid for by SS e.g. legal representation, specialist assessments. I'm thinking this is a location thing, a postcode lottery? So unfair if so.
Hopingforbest - I'm so pleased to hear that you had a positive outcome and that positive outcomes are a possibility. And I'm definitely pleased we're in the court arena (something I never thought I'd say!). I'd really appreciate chatting on mumsnet. I'll set up an account now. What is your chat name on there please?
And just as a general observation -there seems to be a lot of variability in what is paid for by SS e.g. legal representation, specialist assessments. I'm thinking this is a location thing, a postcode lottery? So unfair if so.
Thanks Lee
Surely by all parties agreeing to the assessor (including SS) they can't then start being unhappy with the assessor once the assessment is complete? Or do they literally try everything they can to split the family up?
Surely by all parties agreeing to the assessor (including SS) they can't then start being unhappy with the assessor once the assessment is complete? Or do they literally try everything they can to split the family up?
I really wish we had a crystal and a solicitor. Doing all this without legal support is a headache. And seeing these comments makes me think CAFCASS are just annoyed that the assessment was positive and are now back tracking - would they have queried the qualification if the report showed my partner in a negative light? I doubt it.
The purpose for my partner's case is a bit different because he is trying to show contact in a contact centre whilst supervised is a very low risk scenario. The mother is very much against contact of any sort.
Tbh the way my partner has been handling the case has frustrated me, barely write notes of phone calls, doesn't get follow ups in writing. I'm not allowed to be present at hearings so I only have his word for what is going on.
SS have said that if contact is granted they will do an assessment on the kids to see if it is suitable, but not sure that if they kick up a fuss the courts would take it onboard as such. The judge has essentially said they need to make sure that if contact is granted it isn't a risk that my partner will be out the picture again (either through reoffending or deemed detrimental to the kids)
Does seem to be a lottery....but seeing from the posts it seems promising for cases for proving protective parent status.
The purpose for my partner's case is a bit different because he is trying to show contact in a contact centre whilst supervised is a very low risk scenario. The mother is very much against contact of any sort.
Tbh the way my partner has been handling the case has frustrated me, barely write notes of phone calls, doesn't get follow ups in writing. I'm not allowed to be present at hearings so I only have his word for what is going on.
SS have said that if contact is granted they will do an assessment on the kids to see if it is suitable, but not sure that if they kick up a fuss the courts would take it onboard as such. The judge has essentially said they need to make sure that if contact is granted it isn't a risk that my partner will be out the picture again (either through reoffending or deemed detrimental to the kids)
Does seem to be a lottery....but seeing from the posts it seems promising for cases for proving protective parent status.
Thanks everyone for your experiences.
I've had more contact from SS talking about how it will definitely be a negative assessment and I think if it wasn't for you guys I'd be feeling really down about the future.
Hopingforbest - my mumsnet username is the same as on here if you want to message me on there? Sounds like our experiences are particularly similar.
I've had more contact from SS talking about how it will definitely be a negative assessment and I think if it wasn't for you guys I'd be feeling really down about the future.
Hopingforbest - my mumsnet username is the same as on here if you want to message me on there? Sounds like our experiences are particularly similar.
Just as a little update - expert assessment now complete and report filed.
The assessment itself was very in depth, as expected, but that felt like a good thing. Assessor spent 10+ hours talking to husband and 4 hours with me.
Report states that husband is low risk and that I am a capable risk manager. It's actually very complementary of me, identifying many protective factors etc.
From what I've read on here, it sounds like we will still have a battle on our hands with social services, no matter how positive our report is. We will be using our solicitors to push our views.
Final court date is scheduled for a few week's time. Hopefully I will be able to share some more positive news at that point.
The assessment itself was very in depth, as expected, but that felt like a good thing. Assessor spent 10+ hours talking to husband and 4 hours with me.
Report states that husband is low risk and that I am a capable risk manager. It's actually very complementary of me, identifying many protective factors etc.
From what I've read on here, it sounds like we will still have a battle on our hands with social services, no matter how positive our report is. We will be using our solicitors to push our views.
Final court date is scheduled for a few week's time. Hopefully I will be able to share some more positive news at that point.
SS really are the worst part of this journey.
I was told yesterday that my SW didn't think my OH would ever be allowed home. We haven't even had charges yet.
During the ICPC we were told that SS would refer my OH to their addiction support team, yesterday I was told that they won't see him now because he no longer uses. He got clean himself with the help on NA. SS won't accept NA as being work on bettering himself because it's anonymous. So how he is supposed to prove himself?!?!..... I have no idea.
I was also told that my children won't be taken off the CPP at the next meeting (still a month away) irrelevant of any changes, work done, evidence found, charges made or dropped.
Oh...... and my eldest is almost 18, the day before her birthday my OH can't be in the house with her and has to be supervised out of the house. The day after her birthday he can take her out for the day alone if he wants.
They also assigned us a SW who goes on maternity leave 6 weeks after being assigned to us.
I was told yesterday that my SW didn't think my OH would ever be allowed home. We haven't even had charges yet.
During the ICPC we were told that SS would refer my OH to their addiction support team, yesterday I was told that they won't see him now because he no longer uses. He got clean himself with the help on NA. SS won't accept NA as being work on bettering himself because it's anonymous. So how he is supposed to prove himself?!?!..... I have no idea.
I was also told that my children won't be taken off the CPP at the next meeting (still a month away) irrelevant of any changes, work done, evidence found, charges made or dropped.
Oh...... and my eldest is almost 18, the day before her birthday my OH can't be in the house with her and has to be supervised out of the house. The day after her birthday he can take her out for the day alone if he wants.
They also assigned us a SW who goes on maternity leave 6 weeks after being assigned to us.
Hi,
hopingforthebest, we are going something which seems identical to you! And SS have just instructed Dr Craig for our risk assessment which should start soon.
I am so scared of saying the wrong thing, we have both done so much and our other professionals completely disagree with SS.
Can I ask what you sent him before your assessment please?
xx
hopingforthebest, we are going something which seems identical to you! And SS have just instructed Dr Craig for our risk assessment which should start soon.
I am so scared of saying the wrong thing, we have both done so much and our other professionals completely disagree with SS.
Can I ask what you sent him before your assessment please?
xx
Hi GZ
Sorry I have only seen your message today. I can imagine how stressful it must have been for you but specialist assessment is a good thing as specialists are very fair and non judgemental people unlike SS. I have seen various people here who went through this process and had positive outcome.
Our assessment was done by Dr Craig too and he is really good. If you haven't done yet than go through all the police documents and make sure you know everything as he might ask you about it to make sure you are aware.
I will also recommend reading the book called The Protector's handbook as it will give you a better vision about warning signs etc, it really helped me to put some good points in our safety plan.
Feel free to ask if you have any questions about assessment. I am happy to chat on mumsnet too.
Sorry I have only seen your message today. I can imagine how stressful it must have been for you but specialist assessment is a good thing as specialists are very fair and non judgemental people unlike SS. I have seen various people here who went through this process and had positive outcome.
Our assessment was done by Dr Craig too and he is really good. If you haven't done yet than go through all the police documents and make sure you know everything as he might ask you about it to make sure you are aware.
I will also recommend reading the book called The Protector's handbook as it will give you a better vision about warning signs etc, it really helped me to put some good points in our safety plan.
Feel free to ask if you have any questions about assessment. I am happy to chat on mumsnet too.
Thanks for your reply!
what's your mumsnet name?
I have seen all the police stuff and have spoken to his visor lots about their information and risk assessments.
thanks, I have got that book so I'll read it again.
I'm glad we are finally getting an independent risk assessment, fighting ss is a nightmare. It's like playing a game with ever changing rules.
We are lucky as the other professionals involved, HV, PO and visor fully support us and vocally disagree with ss.
but now I'm terrified of hoping for a good outcome on the assessment, terrified of a bad outcome, saying the wrong thing
what's your mumsnet name?
I have seen all the police stuff and have spoken to his visor lots about their information and risk assessments.
thanks, I have got that book so I'll read it again.
I'm glad we are finally getting an independent risk assessment, fighting ss is a nightmare. It's like playing a game with ever changing rules.
We are lucky as the other professionals involved, HV, PO and visor fully support us and vocally disagree with ss.
but now I'm terrified of hoping for a good outcome on the assessment, terrified of a bad outcome, saying the wrong thing
Hi GZ
I know what you mean about terried of saying wrong this. I was in same boat. Especially after dealing with SS like how they twist words and take everything negative but trust me it won't be a case with specialist. Just be honest with them about how you want to be a family and wants to whatever he will ask you to do.
Just make sure that when you talk to specialist show full victim empathy, don't minimise your partner offenses and understand the level of risk he pose. I always say that my husband will always be a risk but a manageable risk so specialist was happy with it. Show your understanding on picking on warning signs. Your plans on how you will manage the risk like making a safety plan and involve other people in your support circle. Obviously people in your support circle doesn't need to know about offenses but just people who can support you if needed. What work you have done or will do to educate your kids about protecting themselves like reading books to them or doing role plays.
In my assessment I had to do some problem solving puzzles too but my husband one was just talk and filling some questionnaires.
I am on mumsnet with Justamum9, if you want to talk
I know what you mean about terried of saying wrong this. I was in same boat. Especially after dealing with SS like how they twist words and take everything negative but trust me it won't be a case with specialist. Just be honest with them about how you want to be a family and wants to whatever he will ask you to do.
Just make sure that when you talk to specialist show full victim empathy, don't minimise your partner offenses and understand the level of risk he pose. I always say that my husband will always be a risk but a manageable risk so specialist was happy with it. Show your understanding on picking on warning signs. Your plans on how you will manage the risk like making a safety plan and involve other people in your support circle. Obviously people in your support circle doesn't need to know about offenses but just people who can support you if needed. What work you have done or will do to educate your kids about protecting themselves like reading books to them or doing role plays.
In my assessment I had to do some problem solving puzzles too but my husband one was just talk and filling some questionnaires.
I am on mumsnet with Justamum9, if you want to talk
Thank you so much, that's really helpful.
We've asked our solicitor to send some extra documents to him, SS had only sent their report.
I'm trying so hard not to get my hopes up that life could get better after this
We've asked our solicitor to send some extra documents to him, SS had only sent their report.
I'm trying so hard not to get my hopes up that life could get better after this