Automatic Criminalisation
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Morning all,
It's just really struck me today how hard it must be for anyone with an addiction which led them down the rabbit hole of iioc, extreme porn etc. to seek help.
They can't talk to anyone without immediate referral to the police and the terrible consequences of that. Even if they self refer to the police, they will still be investigated and probably prosecuted.
How are they supposed to seek help for their problems with that hanging over them? Sex offence cases are increasing all the time and will continue to until society recognises that most of these offences aren't by people who are evil but have their own problems and need help not criminalisation.
There needs to be more open discussion in society as a whole and less press sensationalism on this whole subject. Not everyone is on the SOR for offenses against children for instance but anyone on it is automatically called the 'p' word by the press.
Modern society, the Internet and social media have a lot to answer for and are not held to account at all.
It's just really struck me today how hard it must be for anyone with an addiction which led them down the rabbit hole of iioc, extreme porn etc. to seek help.
They can't talk to anyone without immediate referral to the police and the terrible consequences of that. Even if they self refer to the police, they will still be investigated and probably prosecuted.
How are they supposed to seek help for their problems with that hanging over them? Sex offence cases are increasing all the time and will continue to until society recognises that most of these offences aren't by people who are evil but have their own problems and need help not criminalisation.
There needs to be more open discussion in society as a whole and less press sensationalism on this whole subject. Not everyone is on the SOR for offenses against children for instance but anyone on it is automatically called the 'p' word by the press.
Modern society, the Internet and social media have a lot to answer for and are not held to account at all.
It's a very difficult one, as iioc is illegal they have to act on it BUT in regards to communication (and perhaps even iioc I can't remember) there is a clause that if you are doing it (or have them) because you are acting in the interest of the law then it can dismiss charges - I assume for when decoys are doing what they do. Which enables the vigilante groups even though the Police say they don't want them to work lol so it makes no sense. Perhaps they should look to put a clause in for iioc that someone should have one get out of jail free card so to say if they self report. I think it's fair to say someone deserves a second chance if they go and seek help.
I'll have to go through the CPS website and found where I saw it, not sure if it relates to images or communication but decoys are sometimes sent iioc so this could be the "clause" for that.
They can't talk to anyone without immediate referral to the police and the terrible consequences of that. Even if they self refer to the police, they will still be investigated and probably prosecuted
I would have thought a therapist might be able to help before they do anything with iioc but then I think that addiction is not a logical disease so even if there was an instance that the therapist could help put safeguards in place so that they don't go down that path, it would be difficult for someone to say they're an addict without going down that hole in the first place. It's akin to an alcoholic saying they're an alcoholic before they get to the stage where they ruin their life.
If you want to know no more about this kind of thing I watched it TED talk yesterday which has or was essentially taking down. It was by my Madeline ven der Bruggen from the Netherlands, who took a compassionate approach to dealing with people who commit sexual offence crimes. She was vilified for this approach, but it actually made sense and should be something that is shared across Europe.
An almost holistic and compassionate approach. For example she mentioned a story about a mum with a 5-year old little girl who had a received a love letter from the gentleman across the way to her little girl. She took the love letter and spoke to him directly asking that he get some help, she didn't go to the police and as a result he sought help. Not only did she safeguard her little girl but she also chose to safeguard the man well. And what's more is that she now knows, she now knows to look out for this gentleman in the future just in case. This is the kind of outlook we need as society to help deal with this growing epidemic where each sex offender is given the same level of danger, regardless of their offence.
I would have thought a therapist might be able to help before they do anything with iioc but then I think that addiction is not a logical disease so even if there was an instance that the therapist could help put safeguards in place so that they don't go down that path, it would be difficult for someone to say they're an addict without going down that hole in the first place. It's akin to an alcoholic saying they're an alcoholic before they get to the stage where they ruin their life.
If you want to know no more about this kind of thing I watched it TED talk yesterday which has or was essentially taking down. It was by my Madeline ven der Bruggen from the Netherlands, who took a compassionate approach to dealing with people who commit sexual offence crimes. She was vilified for this approach, but it actually made sense and should be something that is shared across Europe.
An almost holistic and compassionate approach. For example she mentioned a story about a mum with a 5-year old little girl who had a received a love letter from the gentleman across the way to her little girl. She took the love letter and spoke to him directly asking that he get some help, she didn't go to the police and as a result he sought help. Not only did she safeguard her little girl but she also chose to safeguard the man well. And what's more is that she now knows, she now knows to look out for this gentleman in the future just in case. This is the kind of outlook we need as society to help deal with this growing epidemic where each sex offender is given the same level of danger, regardless of their offence.
I only had "the knock" yesterday so it is all still very raw. My husband has now admitted to a cocaine addiction and say that the inappropriate behaviour only occurs when under the influence. I have always been aware that he watches porn. Are addiction issues a common thing? I want to support him if he is telling me the truth but I just don't know what to believe.
Blackhound,
Yes, this is the sort of thing I suppose I was thinking of. I've read in the past about the system in the Netherlands and thought it made much more sense than the system here, where people can at least seek help without the automatic criminalisation.
Many of our sons and partners would have benefitted from such a system!! But until society is prepared to be more compassionate, I suspect it's a pipe dream in this country.
Yes, this is the sort of thing I suppose I was thinking of. I've read in the past about the system in the Netherlands and thought it made much more sense than the system here, where people can at least seek help without the automatic criminalisation.
Many of our sons and partners would have benefitted from such a system!! But until society is prepared to be more compassionate, I suspect it's a pipe dream in this country.
There is help for people with sex and porn addiction, The Laurel Centre has specialist therapist. There are also support groups such as Sex Addicts Anonymous and Love and Sex Accicts Anonymous, but they wouldn't be able to talk specifically about anything to do with these crimes.
Discussions around sex and porn often make people feel ickly and there a lot of kink shaming around non vanilla sexual interests, this is one of the elements that drives people to do this in secret and to be ashamed to seek help. There is a huge lack of education on how porn impacts the brain and in my opinion how easily casual anonymous sex (or even sexual discussions online) can also impact thought processes and behaviours. It's easy to think "oh it's just porn", or "oh I'm just talking to people about sex" /"meeting people for sex" what harm can it do. And of course, for some people they can do these things and it has little impact on their life - Sex of course and a desire for it is a natural desire and needed for the human race to exist.
Dr James Cantor talks about the subject of the consequences of not making a safe space for people attracted to children. They are discussed on the below. He also discusses when does something not become okay, for example it's okay to play very realistic games where you kill people, but is it okay to read a sexual story about a child. I found both talks, recommended to me by my therapist extremely interesting.
The Earthly Delights podcast Episode 38. You can listen to this on Spotify or YouTube.
A Crash Course in Sexology with Dr James Cantor on YouTube.
I looked at t clauses related to communication offences, again there are some areas that made me ponder. For example, it would potentially be okay if a child was talking to an adult about having sex, they were going to do it anyway, so the adult may then for example give them information about safe sex or gave them condoms. But it wouldn't be okay if they actively encouraged a child to have sex when underage.
Discussions around sex and porn often make people feel ickly and there a lot of kink shaming around non vanilla sexual interests, this is one of the elements that drives people to do this in secret and to be ashamed to seek help. There is a huge lack of education on how porn impacts the brain and in my opinion how easily casual anonymous sex (or even sexual discussions online) can also impact thought processes and behaviours. It's easy to think "oh it's just porn", or "oh I'm just talking to people about sex" /"meeting people for sex" what harm can it do. And of course, for some people they can do these things and it has little impact on their life - Sex of course and a desire for it is a natural desire and needed for the human race to exist.
Dr James Cantor talks about the subject of the consequences of not making a safe space for people attracted to children. They are discussed on the below. He also discusses when does something not become okay, for example it's okay to play very realistic games where you kill people, but is it okay to read a sexual story about a child. I found both talks, recommended to me by my therapist extremely interesting.
The Earthly Delights podcast Episode 38. You can listen to this on Spotify or YouTube.
A Crash Course in Sexology with Dr James Cantor on YouTube.
I looked at t clauses related to communication offences, again there are some areas that made me ponder. For example, it would potentially be okay if a child was talking to an adult about having sex, they were going to do it anyway, so the adult may then for example give them information about safe sex or gave them condoms. But it wouldn't be okay if they actively encouraged a child to have sex when underage.
I read everything on here and it always comes down to the police wanting a conviction that's there aim no matter what...I was reading on here someone's OH I can't recall which one but they post regularly a lovely lady I might add he got a 5 year Shor for 3 images..I mean come on yes its illegal but 5 years for 3 images it ike being 10mph over the speed limits and getting 10 years in jail its just outrageous...but as I've said before because of the nature of the crime its an easy target to get them to comply and unfortunately most do comply I believe this is one of the problems and the police know it .
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To be fair, I don't think Rick was trying to say that the two crimes were comparable just that sometimes the sentence can seem disproportionate to what was actually done. In the case he mentioned, even Blackhound commented on the length of time required on the SOR for what was, in terms of sex offences, a relatively low level offence.
I don't think any of us on this forum can fail to understand that these crimes are serious nor that the victims need protecting.
I don't think any of us on this forum can fail to understand that these crimes are serious nor that the victims need protecting.