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Courses in remand?

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Lucy22

Member since
September 2022

102 posts

Posted Thu October 6, 2022 3:56pmReport post

Hi,

My OH is currently on remand in prison and has been advised that any courses he can do, getting psych help and showing remorse will all help him when it comes to sentencing. But he has not been offered any courses and I am at a loss what he can do whilst inside prison! He wants a psychological evaluation and to go on medication for his mental health issues and would welcome any courses they offer but I am worried everything is so slow it won't happen in time and the judge will say my OH hasn't participated in anything to help himself so is not remorseful enough and won't give a better sentence.

Any advice?

SAL

Member since
December 2021

895 posts

Posted Thu October 6, 2022 5:13pmReport post

It's difficult, because legally he isn't guilty yet. They can't provide rehabilitative work to someone that is not guilty.

I wonder of you can print the modules off from LFF and send them in? Although depending on his prison this might be difficult, dangerous or uncomfortable for him.

He should have access to a mental health helpline and can request to see the GP.

He should be doing any work for himself having recognise the risks and issues and not because it may help his sentencing.

If he admitted guilt and shown remorse at the time of his arrest, this is likely to be acknowledged at sentencing.

Does he have any understanding as to why he committed the offence? There might be some work he can do around that.

Lucy22

Member since
September 2022

102 posts

Posted Thu October 6, 2022 5:43pmReport post

That is frustrating as his solicitor made it sound like he can do courses before sentencing. I will look into the LFF but I don't want to send anything in that other inmates may be able to identify what he's in for by.

He's been asking weekly for a psych assessment and wants to be assessed for ADHD and go on antidepressants if possible as he's been struggling with both for years now.

I understand what you mean. He has been doing a lot of self reflection and writing in a journal to understand why this has happened but without professional help so far all he is coming to is that it's because he has undiagnosed ADHD and has self destructive tendencies and did what he did as a form of self comfort and escapism and pressed a self destruct button. But in my eyes that's not a comprehensive enough reason. Luckily he was very co operative with police and told them everything at the station and pleaded guilty at magistrates, he is of good character too and his solicitor sees he has mental health problems. Apparently if they can show he is getting better on meds and therefore less dangerous upon release this will also help

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2403 posts

Posted Thu October 6, 2022 8:58pmReport post

Lucy22

Unfortunately there are no courses available while on remand, my son was in remand for 7 months all he was able to access was a doctor's appointment for antidepressants , he has been sentanced and is now in a SO prison and yet there is no courses available, they have people that deal with mental health etc but everything is just so slow, my son was paying for weekly therapy sessions before remand and then it all stopped just like that as they dont allow the sessions to continue while in prison, yes they have done wrong but to not have any therapy or courses to work on how does that help them, so frustrating xx

Smile through tears

Member since
September 2021

2554 posts

Posted Thu October 6, 2022 9:42pmReport post

I recently got in touch with the Prison Reform helpline. The said there was a massive backlog for these programmes caused by the lockdown. App priority is given to those ending their sentence, in my sons case it'll be 12 months before his parole date.

I personally think this is wrong, it should be an ongoing programme that starts immediately to create a learning curve towards rehabilitation.

SAL

Member since
December 2021

895 posts

Posted Thu October 6, 2022 11:44pmReport post

Unfortunately solicitors don't have correct information on what happens in prison or the full format of sentencing. My person was told that if he pleas guilty he'd probably get X months, be move to cat D in X months and be let out on tag 3 months at the end - As far as I know release on tag is in most cases not allowed for SO - Although I'd love to hear different if anyone else has experienced this.

You are right in that professional help is required to really understand why and what happened, although it's likely he has a good idea, there is often other things at play.

It will help he plead guilty and admitted what he'd done. His barrister will likely emphasise this.

Being in remand must be so incredible difficult, desperate to act and understand.

If he's struggling mentally, I'd recommend he calls the mental health helpline and requests a doctors appointment.

When is sentencing?

Upset Mum - It's so sad and frustrating that they can't get their own help, especially when so little is offered on the inside. My person has been give two programmes from his OMU. They are work books he does on his own time but he's tried to make the most of them, from what I understand its one of those things that you get out of it what you put in. He's appreciated being given them and feels like it makes the sentence make more sense. Its a shame that these self paced programs aren't offered more widely, it seems like a solution to allow some reform without requiring huge resources.

Lucy22

Member since
September 2022

102 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 9:42amReport post

Hi Upset Mum, that’s a shame I didn’t know that, it is not helpful if they don’t even offer people anything! I am shocked even in a SO prison there are no courses, I have read at Littlehey for example only 50 out of 1000 prisoners are receiving help.

SAL I was told something similar at first, that pleading guilty will get a third off, and that my person will be able to move to more open conditions before the end but after researching found the same that they don’t let SO out on tag and there are hardly any Cat D prisons that take SO’s. His current solicitor told me he probably will never get to a cat D prison but didn’t explain why. But surely getting them ready for release should involve a D prison so they can take part in resettlement days!

He won’t get a barrister due to the barrister’s strike unless that gets resolved today. I'm anxious no barrister will mean his sentence is worse.

He is struggling mentally now his solicitor told him how long he should expect, and I am struggling because he has told my OH estimate lengths which are even longer than he told me! His worst case scenario length is literally above the maximum sentence guidelines for the worst offence he’s been charged with, so I cannot understand it! Unless the solicitor meant worse case scenario in that the judge decides to make him complete all the charges consecutively instead of concurrently. I cannot understand how the solicitor can tell me one estimate length he expects will happen, then tell my OH something much longer. It is confusing and not fair to mess with people's emotions like that.

He is planning to arrange a dr’s appointment monthly to push to get a psych assessment. His plea is Monday but the solicitor said due to them waiting for a psych assessment he probably won’t get sentenced for 10 weeks after that. Although I don’t care how long it takes if it helps to reduce his sentence

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2403 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 11:07amReport post

Lucy22

Remand is such a shock isn't it, the one.my son was in was mixed but had a VP wing but visits were mixed so we were always on edge but we got through it now in the place he is in is ok,

No one can tell.you what sentance they will get, yes there are guidelines but until the day of court only once person can decide and that is ultimately the Judge, x

SAL.

Honestly while our loved ones are offenders to just lock them up and not offer any programs until nearer release is so harsh , my son was told he would serve half because he cooperated from day one but that is not the case now so we have a long journey ahead of us but he is mentally in a better place and that is such an important part for us all, I try not to think.of what lies ahead and get through a day at a time xx I will mention to him about the work books from OMU xx

Smile through tears

Member since
September 2021

2554 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 12:03pmReport post

Post deleted by user


Edited Fri October 7, 2022 3:58pm

Lucy22

Member since
September 2022

102 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 12:58pmReport post

Upset Mum - Yes remand is awful! But at least it gets taken off his sentence so in essence he is already serving whatever gets handed to him. Do you mind me asking why your son was told he would only serve half but now this isn’t the case?

Smile – so did your son never get the behaviour management course? It’s shocking how little help offenders get, how do the gov expect to reduce the rate of reoffending if nobody helps them

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2403 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 1:31pmReport post

Lucy22

Sorry should have said it would be a third off for all the cooperation he gave and early plea etc but after sentancing they said he will come up.for parole in 4 yes but this could be refused and may have to serve his full sentence, but hopefully it dosent get refused but a way to go so just taking each day at a time xx

Smile hopefully with your sons dyslexia they can support him doing the work books x my son was originally going to LH prison but was in the end sent further , I have wondered if amy of us here actually have loved ones in the same prison xx

Smile through tears

Member since
September 2021

2554 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 1:57pmReport post

Post deleted by user


Edited Fri October 7, 2022 9:09pm

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2403 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 3:15pmReport post

Hi Smile,

LH is about an hour from me so would ha e been a better choice for been closer but where he is now its 2hr 15 x I know LH is good for education etc, but only a few single cells

Where he is now they are changing the company who support on visits and the food you can buy is made in the prison good god its horrendous no idea what meat they use I think even my dog would refuse to eat it, that was the one thing he looked forward to on our visits I just hope they can get it sorted soon

Why do they change things when they run just fine,

And totally agree with you on how slow it is to get appnt xx



Hope.your doing ok x

Smile through tears

Member since
September 2021

2554 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 3:55pmReport post

Post deleted by user


Edited Fri October 7, 2022 6:55pm

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2403 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 4:12pmReport post

Hi Smile

Think I know where you mean x

My son has an eating disorder so struggles most days with what they serve but like your son he buys a lot of crappy food from his weekly canteen, not great but it keeps him going,

Glad your ok xx

Smile through tears

Member since
September 2021

2554 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 4:14pmReport post

Lots a noodles & table sauce :)

Lucy22

Member since
September 2022

102 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 5:22pmReport post

Hi both,

Sentencing sounds so confusing, I imagine things like showing remorse and doing things to help yourself would help persuade the parole board why you should be released. But even after release it’s all the restrictions after that. My OH had no idea he would be put on the SOR, he hasn’t got a clue how any of this works. I like to hope if he knew the law better he would never have gone down this rabbit hole

Littlehey doesn’t sound quite so bad compared to a normal prison. Do they ever say why they move you to a different one or is it luck of the draw?

My OH is currently in remand on an island prison - and it is very slow! He says the food is bad but it's not like prison food would ever be 5 stars anyway

Smile through tears

Member since
September 2021

2554 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 6:32pmReport post

Post deleted by user


Edited Fri October 7, 2022 9:10pm

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2403 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 6:37pmReport post

Lucy22

It sounds like your OH could be at the same place as Smiles son x

Where they are sent to is down to the prison and they get told the morning of the move , remand was awful but where he is now apart from things been slow he feels safe , he is a good person and gets on with the officers etc the other offenders do not talk about there crime and in visits it's a lot different to when we went to see him on remand we get 2 hours

It's a tough journey but we get through it as best we can xx

Smile through tears

Member since
September 2021

2554 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 6:52pmReport post

Your right it does!

That's one thing on seagull island the guys do get on well and seem to support each other! There are kick offs but it's not against each other, it's more frustration.

I was mortified when he told me the destination but not a lot you can do / your really at their mercy!

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2403 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 7:04pmReport post

Smile

I saw your other post about parole but you had deleted it x

We have a few years before my son is near that :-( xx

Smile through tears

Member since
September 2021

2554 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 7:09pmReport post

Yep - we do. I decided to delete as I would only be worrying myself about something a long way off..

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2403 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 7:13pmReport post

I know what you mean x

I have 4 yrs to go for the first chance of parole it seems so long away but then I look at the last few years since the knock and it has flown by the fact he is still here keeps us going xx

Smile through tears

Member since
September 2021

2554 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 7:23pmReport post

Post deleted by user


Edited Fri October 7, 2022 9:10pm

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2403 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 7:27pmReport post

My son is 2 years behind yours

I will be 60 then not how I imagined my life to be and he will be 33 xx

Smile through tears

Member since
September 2021

2554 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 7:42pmReport post

On that note I think it's wine time! Haha! Love sent x

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2403 posts

Posted Fri October 7, 2022 7:55pmReport post

Enjoy my dear friend x have one or two for me xx

SAL

Member since
December 2021

895 posts

Posted Sun October 9, 2022 9:23amReport post

Lucy,

There are people on here that have got Cat D, however there are a shortage of spaces in Cat D prisons or wings, so in reality that means very little. My person's status is due for review shortly, but if he wanted to be able to make use of it he's have to be move prison as at this prision they don't allow ROTL. I don't think he would want to move - He's only just got everything he could ask for in place ( although he'd really love a cell of his own).

The other thing you mentioned was the length of sentence your solicitor said to expect, I think my person's solicitor told him longer but I think this was more to make it seem like they'd done a good job when he got less. They said to me it was a very good outcome, but from what I've read of other people's cases in the news's (I know they don't really give you a full picture) his seemed harsh. For them to go above the guidelines there would need to be aggravating factors - For example abuse of position. It doesn't seem this is the case for you, so I'd be questioning that. When he's sentenced it will be an emotional time, in part relief but also a huge amount of pain. I wish I'd prepared myself more practically to understand things - But I've some to peace with this now.

Edited Sun October 9, 2022 10:15am