Why are we judged so negatively?
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Hey Bitterbean,
It doesn't make sense how they can make their mind up before a guilty verdict has even been reached. It's very much a societal small minded issue where we act as judge, jury and executioner and it's the only positive I can take from this experience is that its made me much more open minded! This is another problem with crimes like this, even if you are found innocent there is the "no smoke without fire" rhetoric which is extremely damaging.
I absolutely agree with the what you say about the iffiness of the law, I think I mentioned in a previous post a few months ago there is a huge amount of teens being dragged into this because they aren't aware of the law with even a 9 year old getting into trouble for it, a lot of teens get into trouble over images of themselves and like you said, it's very difficult to prove it was an accident. I also think this with some of the decoy communication cases, these days you go onto chat rooms expecting anything BUT people being who they say they are so I personally think decoys are very problematic but it does depend on the case.
Partners and relatives do get it in the neck sometimes as much as the offender or the alleged offender which is very weird to me as of course nobody likes what the person has done but it doesn't define the person. Again, another societal problem where people believe that anyone who is accused or convicted of an offence relating to children automatically makes them *the word we don't use here* - which is untrue and needs to be diagnosed by a CLINICAL person and not the justice system or anyone else.
I can't imagine what it is like to have to deal with family or friends knowing about it as I haven't spoken to anyone about it - other than my sister who I was forced by the Police to disclose to but she seems to have forgotten about it but what I will say is that I just see everything we go through, our open mindedness, our strength and our compassion as a huge win for us because nobody has a clue how hard it is to get through it yet look at us. Every day is a secret battle that we all win and get no praise for. I hope your family support you and the partner eventually broadens their mindset.
Lots of love xx
It doesn't make sense how they can make their mind up before a guilty verdict has even been reached. It's very much a societal small minded issue where we act as judge, jury and executioner and it's the only positive I can take from this experience is that its made me much more open minded! This is another problem with crimes like this, even if you are found innocent there is the "no smoke without fire" rhetoric which is extremely damaging.
I absolutely agree with the what you say about the iffiness of the law, I think I mentioned in a previous post a few months ago there is a huge amount of teens being dragged into this because they aren't aware of the law with even a 9 year old getting into trouble for it, a lot of teens get into trouble over images of themselves and like you said, it's very difficult to prove it was an accident. I also think this with some of the decoy communication cases, these days you go onto chat rooms expecting anything BUT people being who they say they are so I personally think decoys are very problematic but it does depend on the case.
Partners and relatives do get it in the neck sometimes as much as the offender or the alleged offender which is very weird to me as of course nobody likes what the person has done but it doesn't define the person. Again, another societal problem where people believe that anyone who is accused or convicted of an offence relating to children automatically makes them *the word we don't use here* - which is untrue and needs to be diagnosed by a CLINICAL person and not the justice system or anyone else.
I can't imagine what it is like to have to deal with family or friends knowing about it as I haven't spoken to anyone about it - other than my sister who I was forced by the Police to disclose to but she seems to have forgotten about it but what I will say is that I just see everything we go through, our open mindedness, our strength and our compassion as a huge win for us because nobody has a clue how hard it is to get through it yet look at us. Every day is a secret battle that we all win and get no praise for. I hope your family support you and the partner eventually broadens their mindset.
Lots of love xx
Bitterbean
Unfortunately people will have their own opinions and the ripple effect of this impacts so many in different ways,
It is my son who has offended and he has lost so many of his friends, his father wants nothing more to do with him (we were divorced before this) I cannot change people's views or opinions and I so wish I could, I wish they would remember the person he was and not just the offender
But one thing I know for sure is I will be there as will his sister and other brother for him no one will change what I feel in my heart x
Not much advise other than sending hugs xx
Unfortunately people will have their own opinions and the ripple effect of this impacts so many in different ways,
It is my son who has offended and he has lost so many of his friends, his father wants nothing more to do with him (we were divorced before this) I cannot change people's views or opinions and I so wish I could, I wish they would remember the person he was and not just the offender
But one thing I know for sure is I will be there as will his sister and other brother for him no one will change what I feel in my heart x
Not much advise other than sending hugs xx
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Bitterbean
I understand how you feel because I'm in the same position. The police told me that he had definitely done it because they have intelligence which proves it. I asked could it be wrong and what would happen if no evidence was found on his devices. They said it's not wrong and nothing on his devices means he'd basically get away with it ie not guilty but not innocent!
my grown up children agree with this and as far as they're concerned that's the end of it. So I don't have a choice and I lose the love of my life.
I understand how you feel because I'm in the same position. The police told me that he had definitely done it because they have intelligence which proves it. I asked could it be wrong and what would happen if no evidence was found on his devices. They said it's not wrong and nothing on his devices means he'd basically get away with it ie not guilty but not innocent!
my grown up children agree with this and as far as they're concerned that's the end of it. So I don't have a choice and I lose the love of my life.
Losteverything,
The Police are so horrible, they said the same to me pretty much and alluded to him also looking at images and being a serial groomer and possibly even leaving work to take parts in all kinds of horrendous things. Now I have seen the evidence they had absolutely no right to say any of what they said to me. They almost revelled in it, said they are never wrong and then proceeded to go back to the station and all give very contradicting statements about the arrest which I have copies of. They really need some lessons in basic humanity!
The Police are so horrible, they said the same to me pretty much and alluded to him also looking at images and being a serial groomer and possibly even leaving work to take parts in all kinds of horrendous things. Now I have seen the evidence they had absolutely no right to say any of what they said to me. They almost revelled in it, said they are never wrong and then proceeded to go back to the station and all give very contradicting statements about the arrest which I have copies of. They really need some lessons in basic humanity!
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People offend for lots of different reasons as we all know. Some people have stayed with their partners even though they know they have pleaded guilty/have definitely done it. I am one of them (for now).
People should support us in our decisions whatever that may be, we haven't done anything wrong but we have educated ourselves and love this person and seen what work they've done. I don't expect everyone to support him, that's personal choice.
I too would have probably been judgmental if the boot was on the other foot, towards the person but not the non offending partner.
There needs to be more awareness and education on this subject.
in your case, it should be innocent until proven guilty and even then they should be supporting whatever your decision may be x
People should support us in our decisions whatever that may be, we haven't done anything wrong but we have educated ourselves and love this person and seen what work they've done. I don't expect everyone to support him, that's personal choice.
I too would have probably been judgmental if the boot was on the other foot, towards the person but not the non offending partner.
There needs to be more awareness and education on this subject.
in your case, it should be innocent until proven guilty and even then they should be supporting whatever your decision may be x
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Guilty or not guilty I struggle to understand how people can't see that as a society and as a community we are better to support rehabilitation - This the best outcome is for any crime. Most people that have committed any offence will eventually be released and live amongst us and we are all safer and better off if they are given the support they needed, including the support of loved ones. I can understand the anger when offending is repeated, no remorse is shown and no attempt to engage in rehabilitation.
In more direct response to BitterBean I do often wonder if people aren't prepared to engage in a conversation or even support loved ones of the offender because they fear negative consequences by association - Even if its two step removed. We are all probably more likely to put ourselves in uncomfortable positions for those we love and are closest to, but less likely to for those that are distant. I just can't think of any other logical reason.
In more direct response to BitterBean I do often wonder if people aren't prepared to engage in a conversation or even support loved ones of the offender because they fear negative consequences by association - Even if its two step removed. We are all probably more likely to put ourselves in uncomfortable positions for those we love and are closest to, but less likely to for those that are distant. I just can't think of any other logical reason.
I'm in exactly the same position regarding my husband. He found these photos on his phone after using the kik app. Straight away when he realised he removed all of them and deleted the app. The warrant to search our property stated he downloaded cat a and b yet after devices have been checked they only found low levels on there (on hard drive not still on phone) he explained to the officer what had happened but is still being treat like he's some monster for even going on the app. My question is if the apps are so bad and people shouldn't be using them (for regular porn) why are they still running? An innocent mistake that has put our family through hell for 13 months and it's still not over yet. He lost his job, we lost our home it just doesn't feel fair x
Thanks to all of you for you comments and support. It really helps to know I'm not alone in this, whether it's the unfairness of the law and how it and the Internet operates (with the former playing catchup with the latter), or the hasty judgement of others, what ever their reasons might be.
I guess only time will tell as to whether family members will soften their views.
As to the law, daffodil the entrapment thing for online chat seems a very real thing, although my persons offences are about images, I can totally see how easy it might be for someone to be drawn into a conversation about something illegal, without them realising that it's slipped from being OK to something illegal. It seems very devious and I wonder if the use of police and vigilante decoys is actually "leading" people who would never normally offend into offending behaviour. And young, naive or vulnerable people might not clock what's going on. It's almost abuse in itself, of vulnerable people.
Of course the consequences of more people being found guilty, designated sex offenders and then considered a threat to society are huge. Cost forensic examination of devises, cost of police time and court time, cost of keeping people in prison, cost of extra work for probation officers, maintaining sex offenders register and monitoring of sex offenders, cost of social Work time visiting and assessing families and all the other agencies that get dragged in - all supported by taxpayers money, of course. And then the human cost of shattered family lives, fractured relationships, stress and mental health problems (which in turn puts pressure on the NHS) . Meantime, people are out there running websites and apps, peddling porn with a little extra added on the side, and even the yet to be approved online safety bill won't stop it. I can't understand why someone hasn't blown the whistle on this and suggested a root and branch review of the whole problem. So few people are aware of what is happening until it happens to their family.
I'm not meaning to minimise, the current system doesn't seem to have any effective systems to rehabilitate offenders who genuinely do present a threat, its all built around punitive measures and restrictions for all offenders, in order to control the few who may reoffend and who are a danger to children.
Sorry, rant over. If you got this far, we'll done! :/
I guess only time will tell as to whether family members will soften their views.
As to the law, daffodil the entrapment thing for online chat seems a very real thing, although my persons offences are about images, I can totally see how easy it might be for someone to be drawn into a conversation about something illegal, without them realising that it's slipped from being OK to something illegal. It seems very devious and I wonder if the use of police and vigilante decoys is actually "leading" people who would never normally offend into offending behaviour. And young, naive or vulnerable people might not clock what's going on. It's almost abuse in itself, of vulnerable people.
Of course the consequences of more people being found guilty, designated sex offenders and then considered a threat to society are huge. Cost forensic examination of devises, cost of police time and court time, cost of keeping people in prison, cost of extra work for probation officers, maintaining sex offenders register and monitoring of sex offenders, cost of social Work time visiting and assessing families and all the other agencies that get dragged in - all supported by taxpayers money, of course. And then the human cost of shattered family lives, fractured relationships, stress and mental health problems (which in turn puts pressure on the NHS) . Meantime, people are out there running websites and apps, peddling porn with a little extra added on the side, and even the yet to be approved online safety bill won't stop it. I can't understand why someone hasn't blown the whistle on this and suggested a root and branch review of the whole problem. So few people are aware of what is happening until it happens to their family.
I'm not meaning to minimise, the current system doesn't seem to have any effective systems to rehabilitate offenders who genuinely do present a threat, its all built around punitive measures and restrictions for all offenders, in order to control the few who may reoffend and who are a danger to children.
Sorry, rant over. If you got this far, we'll done! :/
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It really is a massive problem that isn't being addressed properly. When you think whole prisons filling up with just sex offenders!
As I've said before the prison where my son is, was a Cat B prison - it's now a Cat C training prison solely for sex offenders.
As I've said before the prison where my son is, was a Cat B prison - it's now a Cat C training prison solely for sex offenders.
When I was looking at possible prisons my person could be moved to if he got Cat D, I was shocked by the number of SO only prisons there were.
It needs to be addressed but the action and attitudes that I think lead to these crimes are so systematic across many facets I think it'll take a long time to work through changes that mitigate these things happening in the first place and even longer for there to be more of an understanding in the general public. Add to that how quickly technology and the way we are using it moving, it'll be hard to keep up.
It's almost like more people need to know how wide spread and prevalent it is to understand more needs to happen at the system level, not just user level. Think gun law in the US. Many believe gun owners should have the responsibility, but evidence points to there are better outcomes if the state takr greater responsibility.
If there was money to be made from solving this problem they'd have us and our loved ones in focus groups and conversations happening with big tech and governments.
It needs to be addressed but the action and attitudes that I think lead to these crimes are so systematic across many facets I think it'll take a long time to work through changes that mitigate these things happening in the first place and even longer for there to be more of an understanding in the general public. Add to that how quickly technology and the way we are using it moving, it'll be hard to keep up.
It's almost like more people need to know how wide spread and prevalent it is to understand more needs to happen at the system level, not just user level. Think gun law in the US. Many believe gun owners should have the responsibility, but evidence points to there are better outcomes if the state takr greater responsibility.
If there was money to be made from solving this problem they'd have us and our loved ones in focus groups and conversations happening with big tech and governments.
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With other crimes you hear rehabilitate- rehabilitate. With this crime a big cloak is drawn around - people on the outside yell and condone, your branded a P, monster, pervert. just not interested in the background of how it happens/circumstances.
Behind the cloak everyone suffers. Men sentenced with restrictions and families struggling to pick up the pieces.
I get so angry at times, like we've said countless times on here unless you've experienced any sex crime in a family you have no idea of it's pain and consequence for all.
In tandem you never forget about the child victims that have been filmed and abused.
it's all so sad x
Behind the cloak everyone suffers. Men sentenced with restrictions and families struggling to pick up the pieces.
I get so angry at times, like we've said countless times on here unless you've experienced any sex crime in a family you have no idea of it's pain and consequence for all.
In tandem you never forget about the child victims that have been filmed and abused.
it's all so sad x
Smile
you are absolutely right and I am not seeing evidence that the current regime of arresting and convicting the consumers of illegal images is reducing the incidence of child abuse. Surely if it was we would be seeing a reduction in arrests, not an increase?
The problem should be tackled from both ends - supply and demand, not just the demand side.
you are absolutely right and I am not seeing evidence that the current regime of arresting and convicting the consumers of illegal images is reducing the incidence of child abuse. Surely if it was we would be seeing a reduction in arrests, not an increase?
The problem should be tackled from both ends - supply and demand, not just the demand side.
Smile
Hope you are doing ok x
Totally agree with what you said
This journey:-(
xx
Hope you are doing ok x
Totally agree with what you said
This journey:-(
xx
Hi Upset - I'm fine thanks - birthday week for my boy, so a bit of a lump xxxxx
Hes also fine and kept very busy inthe gardens which he thoroughly enjoys.
when's your next visit?
Hes also fine and kept very busy inthe gardens which he thoroughly enjoys.
when's your next visit?
Hi Smile,
Glad your ok I know what you mean to was my sons Birthday last month :-( so hugs sent x
Glad your son is ok , we have a visit Sunday xx
Glad your ok I know what you mean to was my sons Birthday last month :-( so hugs sent x
Glad your son is ok , we have a visit Sunday xx
Upset - enjoy I had a feeling a visit was looming. Love sent x