Acquitted 20 months after arrest
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So as promised here is a run down of everything and I hope this helps others, it shows the importance of attention to detail and documenting things. My partner was acquitted but he did get a charge for something else and we both think it was fair….
We got the knock in March 2021, the arrest was awful because the officers were outlandishly aggressive and said a lot of things which were unnecessary and also alluded to him looking at images but at this point the arrest was due to sexual communication with a minor. The police made x3 further problematic communications/visits and one of those were to deliver the charges in December 2021.
The evidence looked very off to me from the start as the spelling and grammar was very different to my partner and the way the person spoke. There were also things said which just made no sense at all. The reason the police ended up at my door was because whilst in a group on Kik (which was strictly for adults & general chit chat/adult sexual themes) someone in a group had given him their number (which happened to be the police decoy’s number - why did they do this? Perhaps because they knew and wanted to give the police a runaround or perhaps it was a mistake and they copied & pasted it to him) so my partner called them and the conversation was about 10 seconds, literally hi what are you doing and when the decoy said where they were my partner thought it was odd because it didn’t flow with the conversation he’d had with this other person on Kik so terminated the call. So because my partner called the number they basically assumed it was him behind the chat logs. Whoever was messaging the police decoy had a couple of my partner’s intimate pictures (which he had very stupidly sent in one of these groups on Kik with hundreds of people in) and sent them but they also sent a couple of other pics which neither of us have ever seen before. The person also Skyped the decoy (but with no video) and my partner has never had Skype, never even used it.
You would think this would be too inconsistent to charge but nope. The evidence stated that pictures sent to the decoy were in my partner’s phone and he had a folder named Kik (which is automatically made when you download the app/send or receive pics from there) and those couple of pictures were in it (along with others the decoy never received). The forensics never found the pictures which the decoy sent to the person behind the chat on my partners phone which they would’ve done in the Kik folder. They also found no Skype data. In the chat logs, the person behind the messages agreed to call the decoy AFTER the call my partner made but they still tried to say it must mean that it was him. Who knows how many people had this decoy’s number. They used his cell site data to say he was here (a city) on this date and the person behind the messages said they lived there but we don’t live there and it’s a well known city. Basically, it was all very much clutching at straws.
Anyways, we had a nightmare with his solicitors and barrister at the pre-trial hearing which resulted in the judge basically saying that his defence statement not being done and sorted could negatively impact him and at this point I write a stinking complaint to his solicitor and write his defence statement for him. It gets submitted and he gets new representation. In the defence statement I requested that 2 of the officers witness statements from the arrest not be admissible in court because they were full of lies and basically made him sound like a dangerous man. The defence statement came back after the solicitor had looked it over and I could see that the police officers were requested as witnesses and I thought oh here we go. The solicitor then emailed and said one of the officers isn’t available so do you want to go ahead and their statement will be used or tell the court you need them there, I said no, the statement is not correct and it will not be used by the prosecution to paint my partner as something he is not.
I sent my log of events with the police which I had been compiling since the day of the arrest, every interaction, quote and lie was dated and documented and I sent it to the solicitor and said this needs to be included and I will be a witness if the prosecution are going to use semantics to make something it isn’t - with such flimsy evidence, making him sound aggressive and dangerous at the arrest would be utilised by the prosecution to make his character seem poor. Anyways, turns out they weren’t then allowed to speak about the initial arrest but the worst police officer, let’s call him Ian, still did on the stand but not so much about what he’d said in his statement - he actually said some things which he was questioned on as they weren’t in his statement making him look a liar. I wasn’t allowed to be in the gallery because I was possibly going to be a witness so I went to uni and work as normal and my partner kept updating me. Ian turned up late and got a real telling off from the judge, certain things he said kept getting shot down by my partner’s barrister and also the judge and it became clear Ian’s weasly and poor tactics were apparent to everyone else. He was saying things he had no right to say as he wasn’t an expert and the judge was furious. The judge was really nice to my partner and very supportive of him.
The prosecution tried to use a video - a silly one which had been sent unsolicited in a Whatsapp group chat with his actual friends and it was basically a woman with a stick figure painted on her stomach and they tried to say the stick figure depicted a child (it didn’t) and that demonstrated a sexual interest in children. It’s quite worrying that they will use such tiny things and warp it into something it isn’t to win a case. These kinds of videos are rife and many people find them humorous - the barrister stated it was intended to be humorous.
The barrister was fab and got loads of things removed and questioned loads of things whilst the prosecution fumbled terribly to the point the judge kept saying how poor it is and this is a joke. The other officer failed to appear the first day and on the second day the judge issued a warrant for his arrest (laughing my head off at this because what the actual hell is the world coming to) and he turned up about 2 hours later. The judge asked for both sides to compile evidence of facts - prosecution to prove it was my partner and defence to prove it isn’t and said the trial has been such a shambles and everything is so flimsy that he doesn’t have confidence the jury can make a decision so he suggested my partner be acquitted but be charged with outraging public decency - no SOR and was sentenced to a fine which he happily accepted as he agreed it was very silly of him to share his intimate pics without care online. The judge let everyone go but called back in the officer, I think those officers are going to be in big trouble along with the prosecution for everything that has gone on!
It feels surreal, as though something bad is still going to happen but we have lived like this for a very long time. I also think this could’ve been squashed earlier had my partner had better representation but at this point I can’t be bothered to complain, the fact the officers were held accountable and belittled will make them think twice in the future. As much as I wouldn’t live this journey again I am grateful in some ways, I always dreamed of going into law and that is what my masters is in. I am going to use what I have learnt on this journey to help educate others on social media in preventing people being here and I have many little projects planned to help improve not only how these things are dealt with but also working towards prevention. If the judge hadn’t been so fair it could very well have been a different story as we will never know what the jury thought and had the prosecution not agreed to what the judge said then we would have had to wait months for another trial date and a new jury so we are lucky but it shouldn’t be luck, it’s a shame the CPS work so hard to build cases which are so serious and hold such severe consequences without being 100% sure. I hope I’ve covered everything and it makes sense as it’s quite difficult to include everything but it goes to show that they do get things wrong and the justice system can be fair which is something we worry about in the run up to court appearances.
I’m still going to stick around and offer support to everyone and will offer my Mumsnet username to anyone who wants it until the forum implement direct messages. Once again, thank you for your support xxx
We got the knock in March 2021, the arrest was awful because the officers were outlandishly aggressive and said a lot of things which were unnecessary and also alluded to him looking at images but at this point the arrest was due to sexual communication with a minor. The police made x3 further problematic communications/visits and one of those were to deliver the charges in December 2021.
The evidence looked very off to me from the start as the spelling and grammar was very different to my partner and the way the person spoke. There were also things said which just made no sense at all. The reason the police ended up at my door was because whilst in a group on Kik (which was strictly for adults & general chit chat/adult sexual themes) someone in a group had given him their number (which happened to be the police decoy’s number - why did they do this? Perhaps because they knew and wanted to give the police a runaround or perhaps it was a mistake and they copied & pasted it to him) so my partner called them and the conversation was about 10 seconds, literally hi what are you doing and when the decoy said where they were my partner thought it was odd because it didn’t flow with the conversation he’d had with this other person on Kik so terminated the call. So because my partner called the number they basically assumed it was him behind the chat logs. Whoever was messaging the police decoy had a couple of my partner’s intimate pictures (which he had very stupidly sent in one of these groups on Kik with hundreds of people in) and sent them but they also sent a couple of other pics which neither of us have ever seen before. The person also Skyped the decoy (but with no video) and my partner has never had Skype, never even used it.
You would think this would be too inconsistent to charge but nope. The evidence stated that pictures sent to the decoy were in my partner’s phone and he had a folder named Kik (which is automatically made when you download the app/send or receive pics from there) and those couple of pictures were in it (along with others the decoy never received). The forensics never found the pictures which the decoy sent to the person behind the chat on my partners phone which they would’ve done in the Kik folder. They also found no Skype data. In the chat logs, the person behind the messages agreed to call the decoy AFTER the call my partner made but they still tried to say it must mean that it was him. Who knows how many people had this decoy’s number. They used his cell site data to say he was here (a city) on this date and the person behind the messages said they lived there but we don’t live there and it’s a well known city. Basically, it was all very much clutching at straws.
Anyways, we had a nightmare with his solicitors and barrister at the pre-trial hearing which resulted in the judge basically saying that his defence statement not being done and sorted could negatively impact him and at this point I write a stinking complaint to his solicitor and write his defence statement for him. It gets submitted and he gets new representation. In the defence statement I requested that 2 of the officers witness statements from the arrest not be admissible in court because they were full of lies and basically made him sound like a dangerous man. The defence statement came back after the solicitor had looked it over and I could see that the police officers were requested as witnesses and I thought oh here we go. The solicitor then emailed and said one of the officers isn’t available so do you want to go ahead and their statement will be used or tell the court you need them there, I said no, the statement is not correct and it will not be used by the prosecution to paint my partner as something he is not.
I sent my log of events with the police which I had been compiling since the day of the arrest, every interaction, quote and lie was dated and documented and I sent it to the solicitor and said this needs to be included and I will be a witness if the prosecution are going to use semantics to make something it isn’t - with such flimsy evidence, making him sound aggressive and dangerous at the arrest would be utilised by the prosecution to make his character seem poor. Anyways, turns out they weren’t then allowed to speak about the initial arrest but the worst police officer, let’s call him Ian, still did on the stand but not so much about what he’d said in his statement - he actually said some things which he was questioned on as they weren’t in his statement making him look a liar. I wasn’t allowed to be in the gallery because I was possibly going to be a witness so I went to uni and work as normal and my partner kept updating me. Ian turned up late and got a real telling off from the judge, certain things he said kept getting shot down by my partner’s barrister and also the judge and it became clear Ian’s weasly and poor tactics were apparent to everyone else. He was saying things he had no right to say as he wasn’t an expert and the judge was furious. The judge was really nice to my partner and very supportive of him.
The prosecution tried to use a video - a silly one which had been sent unsolicited in a Whatsapp group chat with his actual friends and it was basically a woman with a stick figure painted on her stomach and they tried to say the stick figure depicted a child (it didn’t) and that demonstrated a sexual interest in children. It’s quite worrying that they will use such tiny things and warp it into something it isn’t to win a case. These kinds of videos are rife and many people find them humorous - the barrister stated it was intended to be humorous.
The barrister was fab and got loads of things removed and questioned loads of things whilst the prosecution fumbled terribly to the point the judge kept saying how poor it is and this is a joke. The other officer failed to appear the first day and on the second day the judge issued a warrant for his arrest (laughing my head off at this because what the actual hell is the world coming to) and he turned up about 2 hours later. The judge asked for both sides to compile evidence of facts - prosecution to prove it was my partner and defence to prove it isn’t and said the trial has been such a shambles and everything is so flimsy that he doesn’t have confidence the jury can make a decision so he suggested my partner be acquitted but be charged with outraging public decency - no SOR and was sentenced to a fine which he happily accepted as he agreed it was very silly of him to share his intimate pics without care online. The judge let everyone go but called back in the officer, I think those officers are going to be in big trouble along with the prosecution for everything that has gone on!
It feels surreal, as though something bad is still going to happen but we have lived like this for a very long time. I also think this could’ve been squashed earlier had my partner had better representation but at this point I can’t be bothered to complain, the fact the officers were held accountable and belittled will make them think twice in the future. As much as I wouldn’t live this journey again I am grateful in some ways, I always dreamed of going into law and that is what my masters is in. I am going to use what I have learnt on this journey to help educate others on social media in preventing people being here and I have many little projects planned to help improve not only how these things are dealt with but also working towards prevention. If the judge hadn’t been so fair it could very well have been a different story as we will never know what the jury thought and had the prosecution not agreed to what the judge said then we would have had to wait months for another trial date and a new jury so we are lucky but it shouldn’t be luck, it’s a shame the CPS work so hard to build cases which are so serious and hold such severe consequences without being 100% sure. I hope I’ve covered everything and it makes sense as it’s quite difficult to include everything but it goes to show that they do get things wrong and the justice system can be fair which is something we worry about in the run up to court appearances.
I’m still going to stick around and offer support to everyone and will offer my Mumsnet username to anyone who wants it until the forum implement direct messages. Once again, thank you for your support xxx
Wow! Baffled, reading that it really does seem they were clutching at straws. I can't help but feel if it was another crime it wouldn't have every made it beyond CPS.
You've worked so hard on your partners behalf, you should be so incredibly proud of yourself and I hope he is grateful.
I'm glad to hear you will be sticking around to offer support. You've been kind, sympathetic to others on this journey.
I hope you had the best weekend together and have the best Christmas.
Life for me at the moment is challenging, but I'm looking to make some changes and once things have settled I'd like to offer my help and support in practical ways to those that are raising more of an awareness and risk the online world faces to everyone and how easy it can be to break the law. These crimes are so miss understood and it breaks my heart everytime I see someone new arrive, particularly Mum's who have relatively young sons who find themselves here.
I really am so happy for you.
You've worked so hard on your partners behalf, you should be so incredibly proud of yourself and I hope he is grateful.
I'm glad to hear you will be sticking around to offer support. You've been kind, sympathetic to others on this journey.
I hope you had the best weekend together and have the best Christmas.
Life for me at the moment is challenging, but I'm looking to make some changes and once things have settled I'd like to offer my help and support in practical ways to those that are raising more of an awareness and risk the online world faces to everyone and how easy it can be to break the law. These crimes are so miss understood and it breaks my heart everytime I see someone new arrive, particularly Mum's who have relatively young sons who find themselves here.
I really am so happy for you.
Wow what a journey you've been on, I'm so happy for you both it's all came to an end. You've fought hard for him and it's payed off, the system is so bloody currupt I'm glad you won xx
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No wonder your user name was "Baffled"! This whole thing utterly baffling. Thank you for sharing your story. You are a remarkable woman xx
HI EllBee
As regards to your question about a kik file if you download the app your device stores a file called kik takes a bit of finding it just the mechanism for kik app it doesn't store photos or anything in that file but if it's still on the device when it's being checked it maybe easier to gather information..kik doesn't automatically download images you have to save them unless that has all changed recently...I hope that's a bit of help .
WELL DONE BAFFLED I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN ON HERE A GOOD WHILE
As regards to your question about a kik file if you download the app your device stores a file called kik takes a bit of finding it just the mechanism for kik app it doesn't store photos or anything in that file but if it's still on the device when it's being checked it maybe easier to gather information..kik doesn't automatically download images you have to save them unless that has all changed recently...I hope that's a bit of help .
WELL DONE BAFFLED I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN ON HERE A GOOD WHILE
Hi Baffled
I don't often respond on here - congratulations on your succcess! It's good to read a positive outcome.
Your first paragraph about the background of your case including Skype, KIK and the date is the same as mine!! We had officers and IT experts attend my house to perform forensics on all the equipment but nothing was found relating to Skype and no one had ever used it! We thought it was incredibly odd and the date didn't tally up with anyone actually being in the house. This was the 2nd knock and then there was the 3rd knock where I walked away and the case is still ongoing!
I don't often respond on here - congratulations on your succcess! It's good to read a positive outcome.
Your first paragraph about the background of your case including Skype, KIK and the date is the same as mine!! We had officers and IT experts attend my house to perform forensics on all the equipment but nothing was found relating to Skype and no one had ever used it! We thought it was incredibly odd and the date didn't tally up with anyone actually being in the house. This was the 2nd knock and then there was the 3rd knock where I walked away and the case is still ongoing!
BaffledB; absolutely thrilled to hear the outcome. It's been a very long journey for you but now you have finally got your life back.
Fingers-crossed for the rest of us.
All the best. X
Fingers-crossed for the rest of us.
All the best. X
My ex partners offence also involved the Kik app. He has been accused of downloading and uploading images. I know that he had deleted the app and wiped his phone. I'm hoping that what he has done can still be found?? Also do the police need passcodes to get into a phone?
congratulations BaffledB x
congratulations BaffledB x
Police don't have to have passcodes to get into phone, but if they don't have passcodes it takes a lot longer.
SAL - I think so too, I think they push with these crimes as much as possible. Thank you so much, he is extremely grateful as it was (and still is) a huge risk and sacrifice on my part to have stuck by him throughout this, it would've been easier to leave but once the charges and evidence came I knew I had made the right decision. I'm glad you're still here too, I admire you and wish you nothing but the best for the future. I hope you too manage to find some joy from Christmas, whether it be time with family or just putting your feet up for a few days. Xx
Newlady - Thank you so much! I agree, this system isn't great and things need to change! Xx
EllBee - Thank you! With Kik it is very difficult because realistically anything which is done in the app should be completely removed from the phone once the app is deleted but as I mentioned, my partner did have a Kik file - this wasn't buried deep in his phone it was easily accessible so it looks as though he had whatever setting on to save any images into this folder (I don't know whether the app has updated changes since this). He also had that setting switched on for WhatsApp which is why those stupid videos from WhatsApp groups were in his phone. I contacted a few forensics companies to try and find out if we could run a further forensics on his phone to try and get information to use as the defence but the majority of forensics stated they would struggle to find anything if the app had been deleted.
K4 - Haha, I was extremely confused throughout this whole process and continue to be if I'm honest at the way these things are dealt with. Thank you so much xx
Rick - Thank you. I'm glad I can add another positive story to the few (including yours) which are on here. I know not everyone gets a happy ending but at least we can give some hope to people.
CBM - Thank you very much! That sounds like a complete nightmare, I hope they sort it out soon, there is nothing worse than 1 knock, let alone THREE! Would it perhaps be worth complaining to the Police force? I know you've said you walked away now but you must have suffered terribly.
RIG - Thank you so much! It certainly has and I'm so grateful to everyone on this forum for being so supportive throughout. I will absolutely keep my fingers crossed for you. Xx
Losteverything - K4 is correct in that they don't need passcodes but depending on the make of the phone, if passcodes are not provided it can be very difficult for them to get in, I'm not sure but I think not disclosing passcodes can be prosecuted for. I hope they manage to get in. Thank you so much. I wish you all the best xx
Newlady - Thank you so much! I agree, this system isn't great and things need to change! Xx
EllBee - Thank you! With Kik it is very difficult because realistically anything which is done in the app should be completely removed from the phone once the app is deleted but as I mentioned, my partner did have a Kik file - this wasn't buried deep in his phone it was easily accessible so it looks as though he had whatever setting on to save any images into this folder (I don't know whether the app has updated changes since this). He also had that setting switched on for WhatsApp which is why those stupid videos from WhatsApp groups were in his phone. I contacted a few forensics companies to try and find out if we could run a further forensics on his phone to try and get information to use as the defence but the majority of forensics stated they would struggle to find anything if the app had been deleted.
K4 - Haha, I was extremely confused throughout this whole process and continue to be if I'm honest at the way these things are dealt with. Thank you so much xx
Rick - Thank you. I'm glad I can add another positive story to the few (including yours) which are on here. I know not everyone gets a happy ending but at least we can give some hope to people.
CBM - Thank you very much! That sounds like a complete nightmare, I hope they sort it out soon, there is nothing worse than 1 knock, let alone THREE! Would it perhaps be worth complaining to the Police force? I know you've said you walked away now but you must have suffered terribly.
RIG - Thank you so much! It certainly has and I'm so grateful to everyone on this forum for being so supportive throughout. I will absolutely keep my fingers crossed for you. Xx
Losteverything - K4 is correct in that they don't need passcodes but depending on the make of the phone, if passcodes are not provided it can be very difficult for them to get in, I'm not sure but I think not disclosing passcodes can be prosecuted for. I hope they manage to get in. Thank you so much. I wish you all the best xx
I am so happy for you and your partner, but sorry you have had to go through so much to get to this point.
You are amazing and without your tenacity I fear it might have been a different outcome.
I wish you a happy and stress free future
For future ref please could you let me know your mumsnet name? I am on there but can't remember my name.
You are amazing and without your tenacity I fear it might have been a different outcome.
I wish you a happy and stress free future
For future ref please could you let me know your mumsnet name? I am on there but can't remember my name.
Thank you! I think it's definitely important to scrutinise and question everything, even when it comes to solicitors, police, etc. Not all of them give us the best advice.
Of course, it's Organisedchaos92
Anyone is free to message me if they wish :) xx
Of course, it's Organisedchaos92
Anyone is free to message me if they wish :) xx
BaffledB
Truly so pleased for you both
Rebuild and move on from this
All the happiness to you both xx
Truly so pleased for you both
Rebuild and move on from this
All the happiness to you both xx
Thanks Upset, I really appreciate it, I hope your son and you are doing ok. Sending hugs and love xxx
BaffledB
Were doing ok hun thank you for asking xx
Were doing ok hun thank you for asking xx
Baffled, I'm in complete awe of you. Seriously well done!!!
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Thank you so much Green and Bitterbean xxx
Bitterbean, I absolutely agree I think a lot of people are scared to fight because of what is used against them and also the stigma of the alleged offences. It would've actually been helpful if my partner had been an active user of porn as his preference could've been used as a defence if anything but I guess anything can be twisted to make it look bad. I will keep my fingers crossed for you and hope you are successful in your fight. It's been nice to see some fairness in the verdicts here recently xx
Bitterbean, I absolutely agree I think a lot of people are scared to fight because of what is used against them and also the stigma of the alleged offences. It would've actually been helpful if my partner had been an active user of porn as his preference could've been used as a defence if anything but I guess anything can be twisted to make it look bad. I will keep my fingers crossed for you and hope you are successful in your fight. It's been nice to see some fairness in the verdicts here recently xx
You're partner is so lucky to have you. This is excellent news, it sounds like quite a journey. In any other industry they would look at all the other cases this officer worked on, and see if these cases are safe. Sadly I doubt they will do this. You have to wonder just how many people have pled guilty in similar circumstances as they believe that will result in a suspended sentence despite innocence.
This area I find quite painful. During the early days everyone was so desperate and bewildered my son was abandoned and no doubt so easy for the police to pull apart.
Yes he had solicitors but I think they didn't put up much of a fight on his behalf, just took the cash. I'm sure a lot of it he didn't understand and just went along with them to get them off his back and make it 'easier' for us all....
He pays the price now and I wonder how many others have gone down exactly the same track :(
Yes he had solicitors but I think they didn't put up much of a fight on his behalf, just took the cash. I'm sure a lot of it he didn't understand and just went along with them to get them off his back and make it 'easier' for us all....
He pays the price now and I wonder how many others have gone down exactly the same track :(
Zack,
Thank you so much. I really do believe that there are so many people pleading guilty to things they haven't done because of the process, stigma and shoddy police work. My partner is incredibly lucky that the judge was so fair on the day and could see the holes because otherwise his fate would've been left with the jury and who knows how that could've ended. I am hopeful that the judge highlighted the issues with both the Police and the CPS and I think the Police may think twice about their behaviour in future, they believed it was an open and shut case so could behave however they wanted but they were wrong. Xx
Thank you so much. I really do believe that there are so many people pleading guilty to things they haven't done because of the process, stigma and shoddy police work. My partner is incredibly lucky that the judge was so fair on the day and could see the holes because otherwise his fate would've been left with the jury and who knows how that could've ended. I am hopeful that the judge highlighted the issues with both the Police and the CPS and I think the Police may think twice about their behaviour in future, they believed it was an open and shut case so could behave however they wanted but they were wrong. Xx
Smile,
You're correct in what you're saying, the importance of a good solicitor in the first and second interview is vital. My partner's first solicitor was great but the second wasn't so much and he was allowed to ramble on and parts of his rambling were used by the prosecution. They also interviewed him excessively - I think one went on for about 3 hours and the judge also commented about the unnecessary length of interview, the questions and the manner of the interview. It's very unfair as most of us haven't a clue about the law or tactics which are used and think nothing of answering questions honestly which can then be twisted against you.
You're correct in what you're saying, the importance of a good solicitor in the first and second interview is vital. My partner's first solicitor was great but the second wasn't so much and he was allowed to ramble on and parts of his rambling were used by the prosecution. They also interviewed him excessively - I think one went on for about 3 hours and the judge also commented about the unnecessary length of interview, the questions and the manner of the interview. It's very unfair as most of us haven't a clue about the law or tactics which are used and think nothing of answering questions honestly which can then be twisted against you.