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Bullying tactics

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Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Thu February 2, 2023 4:18pmReport post

We had the first visit from the visor team today.

Despite there being nothing in either the PSR or the SHPO to this effect the visor manager is saying that my son has to disclose at his employment and that if he doesn't then they will.

Both the solicitor and barrister have told us that he doesn't need to do this and his job doesn't involve any unsupervised contact with children so my feeling is that they are just using bullying tactics-he has been assessed as posing very low risk .

The visor guy did say that he would discuss this with probation and get back to us but the fear is that they'll " forget" and go ahead anyway.

The PSR particularly stressed that by gaining new employment he had formed new friendships and that this was very important for his future wellbeing but the police seem determined to punish him and condemn him to a life of working only in menial jobs.

I am so angry I can barely speak.

hpl111

Member since
November 2022

390 posts

Posted Thu February 2, 2023 4:36pmReport post

Seaside, I am angry on your behalf. If he doesn't work with children, why does he need to disclose? This is a witch hunt. Definitely fight against this, they have no right to make up their own rules xx

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Thu February 2, 2023 4:42pmReport post

Thank you I fully intend to fight this it is ridiculous. The job doesn't involve children other than that they may come into the shop with their parents are they saying that any customer service role is putting people at risk ? It's totally unacceptable

Alison20

Member since
March 2021

361 posts

Posted Thu February 2, 2023 5:06pmReport post

I am so sorry that this has happened. All I can suggest is that you try contacting Unlock and NACRO, both charities that would be able to offer support/advice on this. Would the helpline maybe worth talking to, to see if this has happened to others.

I would also ask the police/visor to put in writing why your son needs to disclose when it is not part of SOR or his SHPO.

Would your solicitor/barrister be able to put something in writing to suppport your son, maybe?

I hope this is sorted out soon for you and your son.

Edited Thu February 2, 2023 5:10pm

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Thu February 2, 2023 5:12pmReport post

Thank you Alison I am going to contact Unlock tomorrow.
We will definitely be asking the solicitor for a letter backing us up as well and I know she will do this as she argued successfully that a whole section was removed from the SHPO regarding this.
We will certainly request the reason in writing but when we challenged the visor on it he just shrugged and said that parents would want to know if their children were near someone on the register-it just seems like this guy wants to continue to punish and humiliate him

Edited Thu February 2, 2023 5:15pm

Alison20

Member since
March 2021

361 posts

Posted Thu February 2, 2023 5:23pmReport post

You have every right to challenge it, as you are doing.

If VISOR/police/probation can produce documentation in writing stating 'it is the law' your son has to disclose, then obviously that is what he has to do. But it is quite possible that it is their opinion/views that have made this decision and rightfully should be challenged.

I hope you get this sorted quickly.

Edited Thu February 2, 2023 5:23pm

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Thu February 2, 2023 5:31pmReport post

Thank you Alison that's exactly what I will be doing.

He has a meeting with probation tomorrow afternoon so will be asking about this then .

He suffers with mental health and is extremely concerned and anxious now as am I.

Lola53

Member since
May 2021

269 posts

Posted Thu February 2, 2023 5:46pmReport post

Really sorry to hear that Seaside, sounds horrendous. For what it's worth, our solicitor warned us that they can be very strongarm and intimidating to start with - not that that makes it OK, of course. He seems to think they go in heavy on the first visit.

Hope you and your son are OK x

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Thu February 2, 2023 6:01pmReport post

Thanks Lola it just seems so unfair-he was given a community order last week and 5 years on SOR and SHPO.

He has been working in this role for the last 6 months whilst RUI and wasn't asked to disclose at application or interview so why suddenly now is he deemed to be a risk to others ?

We're really not ok now both struggling-I have PTSD from the knock and the way I was treated by the police and this has triggered a major panic attack today.

BaffledB

Member since
July 2021

876 posts

Posted Thu February 2, 2023 6:23pmReport post

Seaside,

I don't have any practical advice but my goodness am I angry for you!! Are these goons stupid or would they prefer offenders to be forced into unemployment?! Absolute flumping t0$$er5!! I hope you can take this further and get that person reprimanded! Big hugs to you and your son xx

mjl73

Member since
August 2019

240 posts

Posted Thu February 2, 2023 6:27pmReport post

While they can often be supportive, I have also found that they can be a bit like SS and want to cover their own backsides. My person's first offender manager pretty much said as much, in that, if nothing is disclosed and the people find out or another offense is commited questions are then asked as to why they didn't take action.



If you read the guidelines for managing offenders on the register, it does state that they have disclose to employers / landlords if they feel there is a risk and a need to do so. As others suggested, unlock would definitively be a good place to get some advice from.

Alison20

Member since
March 2021

361 posts

Posted Thu February 2, 2023 6:30pmReport post

Remember to look after yourself. The panic you are feeling today is quite understandable. At every new stage of the process I think anxiety/panic is very easily heighted as you just finished one stage and breath a sigh of relief only to find new challenges in the next stage. I think the new challenges when they arise just trigger off all the intense feelings you have felt throughout the whole process.

Take care of yourself

Edited Thu February 2, 2023 6:31pm

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Thu February 2, 2023 6:31pmReport post

Thanks Baffled I am so furious about this I can't speak.

He wasn't given a custodial sentence but they seem determined to shame him isn't it enough that he has managed to obtain new employment, undertake courses , will do unpaid community work and is subject to restrictions?

He says that he will resign rather than be forced to disclose but being unemployed will impact directly on his mental health and I'm terrified of him trying to take his life again

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2385 posts

Posted Thu February 2, 2023 6:35pmReport post

Honestly Seaside my heart really does go out to you both xx

I hope Unlock can give you some reassurance in that he does not have to disclose

Sending hugs xx

Lola53

Member since
May 2021

269 posts

Posted Thu February 2, 2023 9:49pmReport post

Seaside, I'm so sorry that you're struggling - you know all of us on here absolutely understand your pain and the panic and anxiety. Please phone the helpline if you need to talk to someone, but know that we're all here giving you a huge virtual hug xx

Another worried mum

Member since
December 2022

129 posts

Posted Thu February 2, 2023 10:45pmReport post

No constructive advice but wanted to offer my support. How are they supposed to rebuild their lives. Of course he would rather resign than disclose, my son would be exactly the same. As you say months whilst under enquiry not an issue. Stay strong and keep fighting.

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 11:19amReport post

Well we have just had a phone call from the visor manager to say that my son has until 1pm today to disclose to his employer or resign and that regardless of his decision the police will inform his work anyway.

I am so angry I am literally shaking and my son is suicidal.

This is so unfair ????

edel2020

Member since
March 2022

367 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 11:38amReport post

In these circumstances, I would suggest maybe phoning the visor manager, ask to speak to their boss and then get the boss to confirm the decision in writing, giving their reasons. Tell them you wish to obtain legal advice first and request that they hold off on making any disclosure until you have had time to do that. May be a good idea to record the phone call too, so you can use it to make an official complaint, at a later date.

Then phone the Unlock helpline asp.

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 11:44amReport post

We asked for a little more time and the visor manager completely refused.

I have just phoned the LFF helpline and they said that Probation take the lead on this not the visor team but the damage has already been done now

Edited Fri February 3, 2023 11:50am

hpl111

Member since
November 2022

390 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 12:09pmReport post

Seaside, I am so sorry. Can you ask to speak to the boss of the visor manager? Surely they must have someone they report to. I would put in a stinking complaint.

It makes no sense to have to inform his work. He's bound to run into children in his daily life, but as long as he doesn't work directly with them, he shouldn't have to disclose. So ridiculous, it makes me angry!

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 12:26pmReport post

We will definitely put in a complaint but the problem is that the damage has already been done now .

I just don't understand why they couldn't have allowed him a little more time to disclose himself and moreover they will probably go in and state that he is subject to an SHPO and on the register without saying that this was an online incident with a decoy on one occasion and that he is not considered to be a risk by probation

GZ

Member since
December 2021

164 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 12:53pmReport post

I am so sorry this has happened to your son, you need to contact the visors direct superviser/manager today and speak to them directly.
There are very strict rules and assessments for visors to make a disclosure, so unless it breaches his SHPO/SOR they should not be disclosing. It breaks your sons gdpr and puts him in danger.

I know the damage has been done, but the supervisor needs to know the visor has acted in this manner.

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 1:03pmReport post

I am definitely going to make a complaint about this.

Fortunately I wasn't present at the meeting yesterday and didn't speak to the visor on the phone today because quite honestly I don't think I would be responsible for my actions I am so angry

Edited Fri February 3, 2023 1:03pm

Another worried mum

Member since
December 2022

129 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 1:23pmReport post

This makes me so sad and angry on your sons behalf. It makes me fearful for my own sons future. We keep telling him this does not define him or his future that if he takes all the necessary steps to ensure it never happens again he has our love and support and life can be normal and positive. But then I read stories like yours and feel like I am misleading him. Sending you and your son all the strength you need to get over this latest hurdle.

K4

Member since
October 2022

608 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 1:41pmReport post

I am furious on your behalf and so very sad for your son.



thinking of you both xx

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 2:03pmReport post

Thanks everyone for your messages I really appreciate them.

I'm now petrified that the visor will see fit to inform the local media and that it will be reported.

We moved away from our previous home in order to avoid repercussions but it just seems that this whole nightmare is never ending.

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2385 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 4:32pmReport post

Seaside

What is your sons relationship with his manager at work? Could you both go in for a meeting to discuss?

I am not sure the Visor team can report to the media, if it wasnt posted on the police FB page or my the newspaper then it won't be reported

This surly can be treated as bullying tactics as how can they demand a deadline time

How on earth is this fair xx

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 4:49pmReport post

Upset this is absolutely bullying by the visor manager.

My son is just back from his first meeting with probation where we now live and they knew nothing about this happening even though the visor claimed to be informing them.

He said that the probation officer is going to contact the visor manager but wasn't really sympathetic and just said that he would have had to disclose anyway-ok maybe he would but he should have been given the opportunity to do that without the threat of the visor coming in regardless.

When he asked what jobs he could apply for the probation officer couldn't tell him !!

I am completely shocked and so angry about this now but if he complains he is worried that they could make life worse for him.

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2385 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 5:34pmReport post

Seaside

Its not right, how old is your son?xx

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 5:44pmReport post

He is 36

Alison20

Member since
March 2021

361 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 6:02pmReport post

Hello Seaside

I am so sad to read what has happened today for you and your son. I am at a loss as what to suggest to you that would help you in anyway, which has not already been said.

I would still pursue that Visor/Probation explain fully in writing the reason (s) why this course of action has to be taken, especially as he is deemed low risk.

Thinking of you and your son, sending you both strength .

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2385 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 6:32pmReport post

Seaside x

My son turns 30 this September its nearly 3 yrs since the knock, a year on remand, and will be a year in April since sentancing, he has a long way to go before he is released and every day I am grateful that he is still here x

Can you and your son have a meeting with his manager at work?xx

InTatters

Member since
June 2022

171 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 6:37pmReport post

Post deleted by user


Edited Fri February 3, 2023 9:20pm

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2385 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 6:58pmReport post

Honestly InTatters

I totally agree with what you have said

My son has an indefinite time on the SOR and SHOP, he has an extended time licence once he is allowed to leave prison, if parole allow him to xx

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 7:07pmReport post

In tatters you have expressed exactly how I am feeling.

Where is the duty of care ?- this is just so cruel and unnecessary when he is deemed to be low risk and has done everything possible to address his behaviour what more do they want from him?

I am terrified now of the visor coming back unannounced and scared to be alone in my house.

I really thought last Friday when he was given a community order that we would be able to move forward but this has put us back to square one and we are both totally devastated

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2385 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 7:16pmReport post

Seaside

Is it just you and your son at home?x

This journey is full of anxiety, despair and the not knowing what will happen

I honestly thought after sentancing and what your son was given was a positive outcome and I am so sorry the last week after has been really tough

As mums we want to take the pain away and protect our sons but this journey has and does push us to our limits but you will get through this and so will your son it will take all your strength but you will xx

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 7:21pmReport post

Hi Upset no he has the support of both his Dad and myself at home and we will continue to help and support him.

My God this journey really tests you to the limit though doesn't it?

Hope you and your son are both ok and thank you so much for your help and support xx

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2385 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 8:54pmReport post

Its good he has both of you x

How is hubby coping?

My sons father (we divorced years ago) has told our daughter he want nothing to do with them anymore, so its just me and his sister and his brother xx

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Fri February 3, 2023 9:30pmReport post

Hubby is coping as well as he can but he approaches things in a different way to me and struggles to show his emotions so I worry about him as well.

I have been my son's main support since the day he was born and have helped build his confidence up after bullying and a suicide attempt.

I'm a strong person but this is just devastating for him

To be honest I am also really scared and intimidated by the visor guy who has said that he will be making random visits-tonight a car drove alongside the house stopped and then drove off and I was petrified.

Edited Fri February 3, 2023 10:32pm

Distressed and pregnant

Member since
November 2020

994 posts

Posted Sat February 4, 2023 7:42amReport post

Hi Seaside,

I'm so sorry you've had such a rough start with visor. Do you think you might feel better if your son organised a visit so you can meet him? To the best of my knowledge visits are between 9 and 5 Monday to Friday so please try not to worry about them turning up at all hours of the day. I hope things improve for you soon xxx

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Sat February 4, 2023 8:14amReport post

Thank you Distressed I did meet him briefly when he called round the day before the meeting but my son was at work so he arranged to come back the next day.

I really don't want to engage with him in any way at all because he was so unpleasant even at the initial meeting so if he turns up then I will make myself scarce.

The idea of him even being in my house makes me feel sick.

I know that this is necessary but there are ways of doing things and this guy is a thug .

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2385 posts

Posted Sat February 4, 2023 11:56amReport post

Seaside

No one should make you feel intimidated that is awful x

This bloody journey is hard enough without the added pressure of these visits xx

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Sat February 4, 2023 12:23pmReport post

Upset it really is awful but the problem is that if we make a complaint then this guy could just make life even worse so that's how they get away with it.

I had very little respect for the police before all this and have nothing but contempt for them now.

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2385 posts

Posted Sat February 4, 2023 1:01pmReport post

Seaside

I am exactly the same

While we do not condone what our sons have done, they are been punished but how can they not be given a chance

The system is unjust and again us the family is impacted

How in earth do we move on

And I agree with what you said if you were to complain it could make things worse so no choice but to carry on like this entire journey

You will get through this xx

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Sat February 4, 2023 1:15pmReport post

Thanks Upset we are taking this weekend to try and recover and then on Monday we will be contacting the Unlock helpline for some advice and making a plan going forward.

I am a fixer and a planner by nature and this was very much a part of my work previously so I hate that this whole process is determined by others who bring their own opinions and prejudice to it

Peggy

Member since
May 2019

17 posts

Posted Sun February 5, 2023 9:24amReport post

So sorry to hear this. I have had a bad experience with the PPOs who pretended to be very nice and friendly at first ... when they found out that my husband was working for a charity (he's retired) They said they would disclose to the charity, so my husband stopped working there. He was raising £3000 a week for them. And the charity has lost out.

Also, as you say, the work was good for his mental health.

The officer did say though that they would disclose discreetly through the HR department in order to protect my husband. And said to us that they have a duty to protect H as well.



The issue is, he has access to a computer at the charity (no kids).

They also said the charity might still want him to work there, but my husband didn't want to work there if they knew.

I don't know what to say to help, except in my experience over the last seven years my worst fears have not materialised.

You never know, the employer might be supportive?

However, the visor manager you are dealing with is definitely a bully and should not be in the service so please get all the help you can to get moved to a different PPO .. that's very hard cos we are powerless in all this ... because of the taboo nature of the crime, they know that we won't complain if they breach the rules .. because such complaint can attract even more publicity. But you are a warrior .. you can do it

Sending love and strength



there is light at end of the tunnel .. trust me .. the 5 years will pass

Peggy

Member since
May 2019

17 posts

Posted Sun February 5, 2023 9:24amReport post

So sorry to hear this. I have had a bad experience with the PPOs who pretended to be very nice and friendly at first ... when they found out that my husband was working for a charity (he's retired) They said they would disclose to the charity, so my husband stopped working there. He was raising £3000 a week for them. And the charity has lost out.

Also, as you say, the work was good for his mental health.

The officer did say though that they would disclose discreetly through the HR department in order to protect my husband. And said to us that they have a duty to protect H as well.



The issue is, he has access to a computer at the charity (no kids).

They also said the charity might still want him to work there, but my husband didn't want to work there if they knew.

I don't know what to say to help, except in my experience over the last seven years my worst fears have not materialised.

You never know, the employer might be supportive?

However, the visor manager you are dealing with is definitely a bully and should not be in the service so please get all the help you can to get moved to a different PPO .. that's very hard cos we are powerless in all this ... because of the taboo nature of the crime, they know that we won't complain if they breach the rules .. because such complaint can attract even more publicity. But you are a warrior .. you can do it

Sending love and strength



there is light at end of the tunnel .. trust me .. the 5 years will pass

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Sun February 5, 2023 12:11pmReport post

Thanks Peggy for your message.

I'm completely at a loss as to what we can do and don't have any confidence that the visor will deal with this situation discreetly at all.

My son doesn't want to remain in his job even if it were possible because he is afraid of people finding out somehow.

This is just so unfair and wrong why when the PSR specifically stated that being in employment was beneficial to him and that there were concerns about his mental health and social isolation if he was unemployed can they just destroy his life in one fell swoop?

He is now scared to leave the house and I am extremely concerned about the potential for self harm because he states that he has nothing left to live for.

At the initial meeting with probation on Friday it was evident that they hadn't read the information provided by the probation officer who had drawn up the PSR because they didn't know the names of my husband or myself, that he is living with us or that he has an older brother despite all this being stated.

Tomorrow I will be seeking legal advice and making a formal complaint against the visor because I refuse to be bullied and intimidated by him any further.

I'm really struggling with my own mental health as well today and the thought that this is basically going to be my reality for the next 5 years is unbearable-if I'm not here then this pain will go away.

Edited Sun February 5, 2023 2:02pm

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Sat February 11, 2023 12:54pmReport post

So a bit of an update-we took legal advice from our solicitor and she is adamant that the visor has not acted correctly because there is absolutely nothing in the SHPO regarding non contact ( the whole section was removed with the approval of the judge) and it relates only to devices and online.

Therefore he had no reason to force my son to disclose or to go into the workplace himself and disclose either.

We have now requested in writing his reasons for doing this so will be interesting to see whether we get a reply other than "because I can .

We have a home visit from him and probation next week and will be making it absolutely clear to him that we will not be bullied by him-as my husband said I'm now in fighting mode and he really doesn't know who he's dealing with...

If his attitude remains the same then we will be asking to change to someone else however difficult that may be because he is not going to bully and intimidate us for the next 5 years.

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2385 posts

Posted Sat February 11, 2023 2:22pmReport post

Hi Seaside

How are you and your son doing xx

I am so glad you are feeling a lot better and stronger

Why should you and your son have to just allow this person who does not know you be allowed to behave this way

This journey is horrendous but yet we are punished, xx

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

558 posts

Posted Sat February 11, 2023 2:35pmReport post

Hi Upset we are getting there and trying to make plans to move forward.

My son starts his community payback on Monday and has completed some of the online courses so hopefully with him doing 4 days a week it will be done soon.

We are not going to allow this obnoxious little git to push us around and try to stuff up any future employment.

Hope you and your son are both doing well xx

Kt

Member since
January 2023

180 posts

Posted Sat February 11, 2023 2:38pmReport post

Seaside..it sounds horrendous how you and your son are being treated, I really hope it gets sorted quick. This is so wrong xx

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2385 posts

Posted Sat February 11, 2023 2:42pmReport post

Hi Seaside

Glad to hear you are all ok x

Were ok we have a visit next week so get to have a hug, he is ok so that's the main thing x

What work does your son have to do? How long does it take?xx