Found out the charges
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That's quite minimal in terms of communication charges with the incite charge which is promising. I would ask the solicitor to query the charge for x2 cat C and ensure they have definitely got that correct as they do occasionally like to try and push the boundaries, so with it being an incidental download from pop-ups it could be a case of mistaken age but I'm just putting it out there for you to clarify.
Usually with communication charges there will be more than 1 so hopefully he should be released and get a very reasonable sentence, especially with the guilty plea reduction. Ask if you can have a copy of the evidence (if you wish) and make sure statements/evidence is ok before it goes to court. Xx
Usually with communication charges there will be more than 1 so hopefully he should be released and get a very reasonable sentence, especially with the guilty plea reduction. Ask if you can have a copy of the evidence (if you wish) and make sure statements/evidence is ok before it goes to court. Xx
My partner was charged and sentenced for attempting to incite sexual with a child (also penetrative). The sentencing guidelines are very different if the child was 12 or under.
The Sentencing Council website gives a good breakdown of the sentencing guidelines for the charge.
I've followed this and similar charges, but begire and after his sentencing and they really are so varied. My partner recieved a 40 custodial. There was no arrangement to meet. No images etc. Others I've seen have more charges and arrangements to meet and have recieved a less severe sentence.
The Sentencing Council website gives a good breakdown of the sentencing guidelines for the charge.
I've followed this and similar charges, but begire and after his sentencing and they really are so varied. My partner recieved a 40 custodial. There was no arrangement to meet. No images etc. Others I've seen have more charges and arrangements to meet and have recieved a less severe sentence.
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Dragonmama,
I understand your worries, they're very valid as you can see sentencing can be either end of the spectrum! I do think the judge should be more considerate as your OH has already spent time on remand and he may even disagree with that decision having been made in the first place. Hopefully your representation can reiterate to the judge the mitigating factors plus the time spent on remand and he can at least get out and start to rebuild. I can sympathise with your dealings with the OIC, ours was nothing short of horrific with both of us and had I been more naïve I would've left my partner at the day of arrest if I'd believed all the lies the OIC told me, his statement was a complete fairytale too.
I understand your worries, they're very valid as you can see sentencing can be either end of the spectrum! I do think the judge should be more considerate as your OH has already spent time on remand and he may even disagree with that decision having been made in the first place. Hopefully your representation can reiterate to the judge the mitigating factors plus the time spent on remand and he can at least get out and start to rebuild. I can sympathise with your dealings with the OIC, ours was nothing short of horrific with both of us and had I been more naïve I would've left my partner at the day of arrest if I'd believed all the lies the OIC told me, his statement was a complete fairytale too.
Unfortunately my person received life time SOR and SHPO, but this seems unusual compared to others I've seen, even those with similar sentences. The custodial is one thing, but the life time on these is what I find the hardest. I've absolutely no doubt he'll never do anything like this again but I worry about him forgetting something and doing something that is deemed to have broken the requirements. I wish I'd been more on the ball at sentencing as I'd have suggested we appeal the SOR and SHPO.
His conversation was about a 12 year old. The sentencing is different for under 13 - Much more severe.
His conversation was about a 12 year old. The sentencing is different for under 13 - Much more severe.
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I feel sick thinking that he's considered as dangerous as people that have physically acted. I can't get my head around that.
Before I knew he was under investigation for this we'd actually had a conversation about a crime that was referenced on a podcast I listen to - There was a man that hat written in detail on a forum how he intended on killing his wife. His wife read it and he was subsequently sentenced for attempted murder. The guy claimed it was all fantasy. Me and my partner has had a conversation about whether it was right or wrong (which was the subject of the podcast). The guy served his time and now rights crime novels talking in a very similar way to that he did on forums.
I've gone round in circles about how I feel about my partners crime should have been dealt with. He was lying and role playing all sort, some of the things he claimed weren't even physically possible for him to do. He'd had many conversation with women about a certain role play scenario (apparently one of the most popular fantasises for women). My person crime was committed when had a conversation with another adult about a child, I can see how he would have been led by the decoy and believed it was role play and no child existing.
But when I look at it from another angle I can see that if it hadn't been a decoy he'd have put a child in very serious risk of being abused - I feel so angry at him for being so naive and not thinking that could be a possibility. Also if you take the discussion on face value there is nothing that would differentiate someone that had intent v my person that thought he was in a role play scenario. If he'd said in the conversation that it was role play and the other person has agreed, the outcome may have been different. I am in no way excusing it, just explaining it from a legal perspective. Everyone would say they thought it was role play otherwise.
Before I knew he was under investigation for this we'd actually had a conversation about a crime that was referenced on a podcast I listen to - There was a man that hat written in detail on a forum how he intended on killing his wife. His wife read it and he was subsequently sentenced for attempted murder. The guy claimed it was all fantasy. Me and my partner has had a conversation about whether it was right or wrong (which was the subject of the podcast). The guy served his time and now rights crime novels talking in a very similar way to that he did on forums.
I've gone round in circles about how I feel about my partners crime should have been dealt with. He was lying and role playing all sort, some of the things he claimed weren't even physically possible for him to do. He'd had many conversation with women about a certain role play scenario (apparently one of the most popular fantasises for women). My person crime was committed when had a conversation with another adult about a child, I can see how he would have been led by the decoy and believed it was role play and no child existing.
But when I look at it from another angle I can see that if it hadn't been a decoy he'd have put a child in very serious risk of being abused - I feel so angry at him for being so naive and not thinking that could be a possibility. Also if you take the discussion on face value there is nothing that would differentiate someone that had intent v my person that thought he was in a role play scenario. If he'd said in the conversation that it was role play and the other person has agreed, the outcome may have been different. I am in no way excusing it, just explaining it from a legal perspective. Everyone would say they thought it was role play otherwise.
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Dear Forum Users,
Thank you to you all for posting on the forum and for the support you are providing to each other. We value the different opinions and views expressed on the forum and believe it is an important platform for support, information and discussion. The discussion around decoys is an interesting one, which is highly thought-provoking and sensitive, and we wanted to share a few thoughts.
We’ve worked with a number of individuals who thought they were chatting online to a child, when in actual fact it was an adult presenting themselves as a child (usually an undercover police officer). Despite this, it is important to note that it is the intention behind this online behaviour that is examined and considered by the Court. When sentencing an individual for this type of offence, the Court will need to determine the degree of harm caused and the culpability of the person who has committed the offence. Harm in this case addresses whether or not sexual images were sent or received, and the psychological harm that is characteristic of this type of offending, with culpability assessing the presence and significance of things such as abuse of trust, use of threats, and soliciting images. In cases where someone has tried to communicate with a child victim who does not exist e.g., being caught by an undercover police officer, the court will still seek to identify the category of harm caused on the basis of the sexual activity intended by the individual, but will then adjust this to reflect the fact that no or lesser harm has actually resulted. You can find out more by visiting the Sentencing Council website: https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/
Occasionally, we work with people who view their online sexual communication offences as being less harmful than other types of sexual offending, largely due to the fact they had no physical contact with the victim. Survivors of online sexual communication offences describe experiencing
both short-term and long-term effects, many of which last a lifetime, regardless of the fact it took place online. The impact upon victims can often involve both emotional and physical harm, such as anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, shame, guilt, suicidal thoughts and sleep disturbance, as well as having an impact on their behaviour, such as difficulty coping with stress, self-harm, relationship problems with partners/family/friends, drug and alcohol use, or problems at school.
With regards to being on the register (SOR), those individuals who have received custodial sentences in excess of 30 months are subject to an indefinite notification period. However, these individuals can apply to the police for this to be reviewed after a 15 year period. The police will consider a broad range of factors when reviewing this, such as the risk of sexual harm posed by the individual, the seriousness of the offence(s), the period of time that has passed since the offence was committed, and previous compliance with the notification requirements. For further information, visit the Unlock website: https://unlock.org.uk/
We hope that this can help shed some light on some of the specific sentencing decisions that are made in relation to offences involving sexual communication with a child.
Thanks again to you all for reading and posting on this forum. We appreciate all stages of this journey can be an incredibly difficult time for those involved, and want to continue to encourage you to use this space to share your thoughts, knowledge and opinions.
Take Care
The Forum Team
Thank you to you all for posting on the forum and for the support you are providing to each other. We value the different opinions and views expressed on the forum and believe it is an important platform for support, information and discussion. The discussion around decoys is an interesting one, which is highly thought-provoking and sensitive, and we wanted to share a few thoughts.
We’ve worked with a number of individuals who thought they were chatting online to a child, when in actual fact it was an adult presenting themselves as a child (usually an undercover police officer). Despite this, it is important to note that it is the intention behind this online behaviour that is examined and considered by the Court. When sentencing an individual for this type of offence, the Court will need to determine the degree of harm caused and the culpability of the person who has committed the offence. Harm in this case addresses whether or not sexual images were sent or received, and the psychological harm that is characteristic of this type of offending, with culpability assessing the presence and significance of things such as abuse of trust, use of threats, and soliciting images. In cases where someone has tried to communicate with a child victim who does not exist e.g., being caught by an undercover police officer, the court will still seek to identify the category of harm caused on the basis of the sexual activity intended by the individual, but will then adjust this to reflect the fact that no or lesser harm has actually resulted. You can find out more by visiting the Sentencing Council website: https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/
Occasionally, we work with people who view their online sexual communication offences as being less harmful than other types of sexual offending, largely due to the fact they had no physical contact with the victim. Survivors of online sexual communication offences describe experiencing
both short-term and long-term effects, many of which last a lifetime, regardless of the fact it took place online. The impact upon victims can often involve both emotional and physical harm, such as anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, shame, guilt, suicidal thoughts and sleep disturbance, as well as having an impact on their behaviour, such as difficulty coping with stress, self-harm, relationship problems with partners/family/friends, drug and alcohol use, or problems at school.
With regards to being on the register (SOR), those individuals who have received custodial sentences in excess of 30 months are subject to an indefinite notification period. However, these individuals can apply to the police for this to be reviewed after a 15 year period. The police will consider a broad range of factors when reviewing this, such as the risk of sexual harm posed by the individual, the seriousness of the offence(s), the period of time that has passed since the offence was committed, and previous compliance with the notification requirements. For further information, visit the Unlock website: https://unlock.org.uk/
We hope that this can help shed some light on some of the specific sentencing decisions that are made in relation to offences involving sexual communication with a child.
Thanks again to you all for reading and posting on this forum. We appreciate all stages of this journey can be an incredibly difficult time for those involved, and want to continue to encourage you to use this space to share your thoughts, knowledge and opinions.
Take Care
The Forum Team
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Hello Bettyboo65,
It is good to hear that you found the information helpful.
The answer to the question you have asked about a connection between survivors and online sexual offences is often complex. There are limited studies examining a connection between survivors of child sexual abuse and engaging in illegal online sexual communication. However, we know that in general; most individuals who have been victims of crime do not go on to offend. But we also know that most offenders have previously been victims. We would like to make it clear that this is for all types of crime, not specifically sexual crimes. There are a lot of theories out there attempting to explain the connection between ‘victim-offenders’ which is often how these types of situations are referred to. Some of these theories have attempted to discuss factors such as the impact of trauma and learned behaviour from an early age. However, to this date, a connection is still considered controversial.
You have asked if being a survivor of sexual abuse is considered a mitigating factor; it is not listed as a mitigating factor in the sentencing guidelines. However, it could be considered in the pre-sentence report. The pre-sentence report is an expert assessment of the nature and causes of an individuals’ behaviour which will consider risk and sentencing options available. This will include an overview of the individuals’ history of offending and their attitude towards their own offending. It will be useful for the probation officer writing this report to know about his past abuse, particularly if he believes his offence was influenced by the abuse he suffered. The pre-sentence report considers risk and this will therefore be relevant.
If you would like more information about the pre-sentence report, we recommend taking a look at the Law Society website. You can access this here: https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/topics/criminal-justice/new-pre-sentence-report-protocol
We hope this helps.
It is good to hear that you found the information helpful.
The answer to the question you have asked about a connection between survivors and online sexual offences is often complex. There are limited studies examining a connection between survivors of child sexual abuse and engaging in illegal online sexual communication. However, we know that in general; most individuals who have been victims of crime do not go on to offend. But we also know that most offenders have previously been victims. We would like to make it clear that this is for all types of crime, not specifically sexual crimes. There are a lot of theories out there attempting to explain the connection between ‘victim-offenders’ which is often how these types of situations are referred to. Some of these theories have attempted to discuss factors such as the impact of trauma and learned behaviour from an early age. However, to this date, a connection is still considered controversial.
You have asked if being a survivor of sexual abuse is considered a mitigating factor; it is not listed as a mitigating factor in the sentencing guidelines. However, it could be considered in the pre-sentence report. The pre-sentence report is an expert assessment of the nature and causes of an individuals’ behaviour which will consider risk and sentencing options available. This will include an overview of the individuals’ history of offending and their attitude towards their own offending. It will be useful for the probation officer writing this report to know about his past abuse, particularly if he believes his offence was influenced by the abuse he suffered. The pre-sentence report considers risk and this will therefore be relevant.
If you would like more information about the pre-sentence report, we recommend taking a look at the Law Society website. You can access this here: https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/topics/criminal-justice/new-pre-sentence-report-protocol
We hope this helps.
HelpMe; I couldn't agree more with what you e said.
I read all the posts on here as I can't talk to anyone else about this issue so knowing what's happening with others is helpful and makes me feel less isolated.
What I'm about to write are my thoughts only and in no way intended to upset it offend anyone. I apologise in advance if they do.
I read words like "naive", "dark hole" and "mistake" and wonder how we as partners of offenders have come to reconcile their behaviour and treatment towards us. I know in my case, I haven't left my partner (yet), initially after the knock there was disbelief, then anger and then trying to reconcile the new information to the man I had dedicated my life to.
Was he "naive" or was he chancing his luck? Was it a "dark hole" or his new chosen secret lifestyle? According to him he'd have "eventually" stopped his online activity but since he had been getting away with it, I guess he never felt the need to (he was meeting women he'd met online). Lastly, the "mistake" was maybe being caught or the fact that women weren't as readily available so anything for a thrill?
Again, like it's been mentioned before, the need for excitement or arousal leads to things that they may otherwise have not even considered but the fact is they did and that is life-changing.
I think on my part, addressing or labelling this as being a naive mistake or wishing it was an addiction to online chatting which lead to this helps me cope. I couldn't imaging continuing to live with someone who had that mindset and whether I like to admit it or not, the fear of being alone, starting a new life and of the unknown scares the life out of me. Sadly, the fact is, they have lied and committed a horrendous act. I say this because I often ask myself if I would leave my underage child with someone who had made a "mistake" like this and the answer is always no.
Like a few, this was communication too. First offense, 1 chat where 1 (too many) sexual comment/suggestion was made to a decoy posing as a 13 year old. No previous. Life was going so well until the knock.
Again, this post is in no way intended to offend anyone. These are my thoughts entirely and just wanted to say them out loud (in writing).
x
I read all the posts on here as I can't talk to anyone else about this issue so knowing what's happening with others is helpful and makes me feel less isolated.
What I'm about to write are my thoughts only and in no way intended to upset it offend anyone. I apologise in advance if they do.
I read words like "naive", "dark hole" and "mistake" and wonder how we as partners of offenders have come to reconcile their behaviour and treatment towards us. I know in my case, I haven't left my partner (yet), initially after the knock there was disbelief, then anger and then trying to reconcile the new information to the man I had dedicated my life to.
Was he "naive" or was he chancing his luck? Was it a "dark hole" or his new chosen secret lifestyle? According to him he'd have "eventually" stopped his online activity but since he had been getting away with it, I guess he never felt the need to (he was meeting women he'd met online). Lastly, the "mistake" was maybe being caught or the fact that women weren't as readily available so anything for a thrill?
Again, like it's been mentioned before, the need for excitement or arousal leads to things that they may otherwise have not even considered but the fact is they did and that is life-changing.
I think on my part, addressing or labelling this as being a naive mistake or wishing it was an addiction to online chatting which lead to this helps me cope. I couldn't imaging continuing to live with someone who had that mindset and whether I like to admit it or not, the fear of being alone, starting a new life and of the unknown scares the life out of me. Sadly, the fact is, they have lied and committed a horrendous act. I say this because I often ask myself if I would leave my underage child with someone who had made a "mistake" like this and the answer is always no.
Like a few, this was communication too. First offense, 1 chat where 1 (too many) sexual comment/suggestion was made to a decoy posing as a 13 year old. No previous. Life was going so well until the knock.
Again, this post is in no way intended to offend anyone. These are my thoughts entirely and just wanted to say them out loud (in writing).
x
RIG22, I totally agree with you. Men just make excuses for why they committed this crime. It's just a means to coerce women to stay with them because who would want them now!!!! I really hope you find the strength to leave, you deserve a better life x
Lost everything,
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and all have different feelings surrounding this. But I cannot disagree with you more and sometimes you are very insensitive to those supporting their partners/sons/family members.
I understand how this crime has ruined your life and you chose to walk away-you are fully supported in this decision. However you also need to support others and by doing blanket statements like this it can feel very unsupportive
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and all have different feelings surrounding this. But I cannot disagree with you more and sometimes you are very insensitive to those supporting their partners/sons/family members.
I understand how this crime has ruined your life and you chose to walk away-you are fully supported in this decision. However you also need to support others and by doing blanket statements like this it can feel very unsupportive
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I'm sorry if I offended anyone.... it's just that this is what I believe. All I hear on here is how lives have been ruined by men who choose to break the law.
no I'm not a social worker but I do work with children who have been the victim of these crimes and sorry but there are no valid excuses.
I've clearly upset people so I'll leave the forum now
no I'm not a social worker but I do work with children who have been the victim of these crimes and sorry but there are no valid excuses.
I've clearly upset people so I'll leave the forum now
@cherry very well said x
I'm totally with you cherry, you can see genuine remorse, shame and in lots of cases issues that have led these men to where they are but they don't need society and media hating on them. They need guidance and support to climb out of the darkness . A lot of them are not the scourge of society which is how they are portrayed x
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Really sorry, I'm just so desperately unhappy
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Losteverything; please don't leave. What you have to say might not be for everyone but it may resonate with some so not all is lost.
Your feelings are valid and they matter to you and since this is a safe place for us all be it partners, parents, children or siblings, we should be allowed to express those thoughts and views. Having said that, we are ALL hurting and we all have our own ways of expressing it. None of us are wrong so please let's be empathic towards each other and allow a little leniency when reading or responding to posts and not take it as a personal attack.
Like I said in my original post, my post was about how I felt and not intended to upset or hurt or offend anyone and the fact that everyone was kind enough to accept what I'd written, let's be kind to one another because let's face it, no one else is being kind to us in our world outside of this forum.
Each day is different. Some days I wake up feeling really hopeful and positive (God only knows why!) and others I barely want to get out of bed. On those bad days I'd like to share my feelings knowing that I won't be judged and THAT is what keeps me going during those dark moments.
Again, Losteverything pls stay. You're just as much a part of this forum as any of us.
Stay blessed all. X
Your feelings are valid and they matter to you and since this is a safe place for us all be it partners, parents, children or siblings, we should be allowed to express those thoughts and views. Having said that, we are ALL hurting and we all have our own ways of expressing it. None of us are wrong so please let's be empathic towards each other and allow a little leniency when reading or responding to posts and not take it as a personal attack.
Like I said in my original post, my post was about how I felt and not intended to upset or hurt or offend anyone and the fact that everyone was kind enough to accept what I'd written, let's be kind to one another because let's face it, no one else is being kind to us in our world outside of this forum.
Each day is different. Some days I wake up feeling really hopeful and positive (God only knows why!) and others I barely want to get out of bed. On those bad days I'd like to share my feelings knowing that I won't be judged and THAT is what keeps me going during those dark moments.
Again, Losteverything pls stay. You're just as much a part of this forum as any of us.
Stay blessed all. X