Pre sentencing can someone explain
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Hi all
I've been in a really good place the last few weeks but I sense a wobble coming on.
My person got his pre sentencing report from probation yesterday. It is very well written and detailed. There are lots of mitigating factors well detailed too. He was charged with making (I hate that term)/possessing IIOC cat A B & C. No communication, no sharing, no contact. Most were post pubescent teens but as he downloaded in bulk there were a few much much younger that he wasn't interested in but nevertheless were on our laptop.
The report details that his attraction was to post pubescent teens and considering this there is currently not a risk to our two girls aged 5 and 8. Then it gets confusing. They've used a sexual offending predictor tool which suggests he's at medium risk of committing a serious sexual contact offence??? I have no idea how they have come to this conclusion.
It says he is low to medium risk of reoffending and in the next sentence says our children are at risk of exposure to IIOC on the devices in our home?? When he was offending it only happened when he was alone at home. He works night shifts so would be home alone while I was at work and kids in childcare. Plus he would never dream of exposing our kids to that. I'm so confused right now?
I understand that our girls will be teens one day and I understand there is 'a risk' but he is not interested in "real life" people. At the time of his offending he had no concern for the victims in the images but now after help from a therapist and SIN, he is disgusted with his behaviour and sees the girls as victims.
Probation have suggested the ihorizon course and he is starting inform plus in June. Surely after all this rehabilitation the risk goes down?
I'm so confused. I am just so worried that SS are never going to take the kids of CPP and move to CIN or that he'll ever get unsupervised contact. He is living at home and has been through 22 months of this 2 year ordeal. I am supervising him in the home with the kids and it has been hard but in the back of my mind I've just thought that once sentencing is done, things might ease and I might be able to pop out for a pint of milk on my own or have a bath when the kids are awake. I'm scared this is just going to go on and on. :-( surely at some point the risk has to go down.
I'm feeling really flat today and anxious. This is what I hate the most is that things go well and I'm in a good place then something happens and all those horrible feeling resurface and it affects everything. I struggle to get out of bed in the mornings and concentrate at work or generally enjoy anything.
Anyone got any words of advice? 2 years in and I'm so done with it all. I just want to be left alone now :-(
I've been in a really good place the last few weeks but I sense a wobble coming on.
My person got his pre sentencing report from probation yesterday. It is very well written and detailed. There are lots of mitigating factors well detailed too. He was charged with making (I hate that term)/possessing IIOC cat A B & C. No communication, no sharing, no contact. Most were post pubescent teens but as he downloaded in bulk there were a few much much younger that he wasn't interested in but nevertheless were on our laptop.
The report details that his attraction was to post pubescent teens and considering this there is currently not a risk to our two girls aged 5 and 8. Then it gets confusing. They've used a sexual offending predictor tool which suggests he's at medium risk of committing a serious sexual contact offence??? I have no idea how they have come to this conclusion.
It says he is low to medium risk of reoffending and in the next sentence says our children are at risk of exposure to IIOC on the devices in our home?? When he was offending it only happened when he was alone at home. He works night shifts so would be home alone while I was at work and kids in childcare. Plus he would never dream of exposing our kids to that. I'm so confused right now?
I understand that our girls will be teens one day and I understand there is 'a risk' but he is not interested in "real life" people. At the time of his offending he had no concern for the victims in the images but now after help from a therapist and SIN, he is disgusted with his behaviour and sees the girls as victims.
Probation have suggested the ihorizon course and he is starting inform plus in June. Surely after all this rehabilitation the risk goes down?
I'm so confused. I am just so worried that SS are never going to take the kids of CPP and move to CIN or that he'll ever get unsupervised contact. He is living at home and has been through 22 months of this 2 year ordeal. I am supervising him in the home with the kids and it has been hard but in the back of my mind I've just thought that once sentencing is done, things might ease and I might be able to pop out for a pint of milk on my own or have a bath when the kids are awake. I'm scared this is just going to go on and on. :-( surely at some point the risk has to go down.
I'm feeling really flat today and anxious. This is what I hate the most is that things go well and I'm in a good place then something happens and all those horrible feeling resurface and it affects everything. I struggle to get out of bed in the mornings and concentrate at work or generally enjoy anything.
Anyone got any words of advice? 2 years in and I'm so done with it all. I just want to be left alone now :-(
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I'm not by any means an expert but this is my understanding on what you've written in your post;
The iioc were on a family laptop so they have concerns that your girls could access them. To mitigate this you from a ss perspective you could have devices that your oh doesn't have access to and obviously put the relevant blocks on for the girls to use.
Whatever tool they use to reach his risk level will include static factors like age at time of offending, length of offending etc and things that can change so things like living with you and your children will provide an opportunity to offend in their eyes, against your children or their friends.
If it's possible to fund an independent risk assessment I'd do that but make sure you ask ss what they'd like to be assessed in it and give them a few assessors to choose from so they can't disregard it. Alternatively they can fund the independent assessment but they usually don't unless they're taking you to court xxx
The iioc were on a family laptop so they have concerns that your girls could access them. To mitigate this you from a ss perspective you could have devices that your oh doesn't have access to and obviously put the relevant blocks on for the girls to use.
Whatever tool they use to reach his risk level will include static factors like age at time of offending, length of offending etc and things that can change so things like living with you and your children will provide an opportunity to offend in their eyes, against your children or their friends.
If it's possible to fund an independent risk assessment I'd do that but make sure you ask ss what they'd like to be assessed in it and give them a few assessors to choose from so they can't disregard it. Alternatively they can fund the independent assessment but they usually don't unless they're taking you to court xxx
Thank you both for your comments.
The offending happened on a laptop we both shared and had access to, not the children. It happened over an 18 month period and was a result of a porn addiction which got out of control. He told probation that he was 'at the time' looking at older teenagers that were developed. Probably the youngest may have been 15 he thinks. He was sexually abused by a man when he was a child and saw this man around the time of his addiction starting and this was a trigger for depression and then accessing porn more which turned into an addiction.
The only device he owns is a phone. The kids have tablets which are password protected with family filters on etc. I have a work laptop which is password protected which he cannot use. We've not been able to afford to replace the laptop the police took.
Probation are saying they don't see our children to be at risk because they are 5 and 8 but then go on to say he is at risk of reoffending and exposing the kids to it...not physically showing them but them accessing devices he uses, but they have no idea what devices we have/don't have at home.
The contact offending thing.....I just don't understand how this conclusion has been formed.
Also, the online offending stopped 2 years ago and he hasn't looked at anything since. He was in a really bad place at the time. He basically said he was looking at young, athletic looking females with boobs..........basically what I looked like when we met 17 years ago. Now I'm overweight with stretch marks and saggy boobs after having 2 kids. I can see why he turned to porn!
The offending happened on a laptop we both shared and had access to, not the children. It happened over an 18 month period and was a result of a porn addiction which got out of control. He told probation that he was 'at the time' looking at older teenagers that were developed. Probably the youngest may have been 15 he thinks. He was sexually abused by a man when he was a child and saw this man around the time of his addiction starting and this was a trigger for depression and then accessing porn more which turned into an addiction.
The only device he owns is a phone. The kids have tablets which are password protected with family filters on etc. I have a work laptop which is password protected which he cannot use. We've not been able to afford to replace the laptop the police took.
Probation are saying they don't see our children to be at risk because they are 5 and 8 but then go on to say he is at risk of reoffending and exposing the kids to it...not physically showing them but them accessing devices he uses, but they have no idea what devices we have/don't have at home.
The contact offending thing.....I just don't understand how this conclusion has been formed.
Also, the online offending stopped 2 years ago and he hasn't looked at anything since. He was in a really bad place at the time. He basically said he was looking at young, athletic looking females with boobs..........basically what I looked like when we met 17 years ago. Now I'm overweight with stretch marks and saggy boobs after having 2 kids. I can see why he turned to porn!
Thank you Lee. That does make sense. Probation have recommended ihorizon. I've done my research about it and it looks very good and in depth.
You're right, they don't know him like I do. He 1000% isn't going to reoffend. His behaviour makes him feel sick now. He knows what he will lose if he does and has been incredibly lucky that I have stood by him throughout. I feel that I am the most traumatised by the whole thing. He's changed into a different person since the knock, he has worked very hard over the last 2 years to get help for his trauma and learn how to deal better with life.
Do you think it would be appropriate to suggest lowering our plan from CPP to CIN once he has completed ihorizon and inform plus? And possibly a phased return into some unsupervised contact? I fear if I suggest these things now they will then just think I lack insight?
You're right, they don't know him like I do. He 1000% isn't going to reoffend. His behaviour makes him feel sick now. He knows what he will lose if he does and has been incredibly lucky that I have stood by him throughout. I feel that I am the most traumatised by the whole thing. He's changed into a different person since the knock, he has worked very hard over the last 2 years to get help for his trauma and learn how to deal better with life.
Do you think it would be appropriate to suggest lowering our plan from CPP to CIN once he has completed ihorizon and inform plus? And possibly a phased return into some unsupervised contact? I fear if I suggest these things now they will then just think I lack insight?
Hi Lee.
Yes that's the plan, I will wait till after sentencing to suggest anything. Sentencing is in 3 weeks.
Sounds like you've been in this club a long time, sorry you've had to wait so long for unsupervised. Although to hear that it is possible is nice to know.
Thank you for your advice x
Yes that's the plan, I will wait till after sentencing to suggest anything. Sentencing is in 3 weeks.
Sounds like you've been in this club a long time, sorry you've had to wait so long for unsupervised. Although to hear that it is possible is nice to know.
Thank you for your advice x
Thanks Lee. I actually am so glad I posted earlier. I am feeling better. Do you ever wonder when the day will come when none of it is in your life anymore? Hope you're having a good weekend x
Thanks for the reassurance. I think once sentencing is done and we know where we stand with SS I will feel better. Me and my person need to start rebuilding our relationship. We have rebuilt to an extent over the last 2 years but this has taken up everything I have so it would be good to focus on us.
Thank you so much for your support. It really is appreciated x
Thank you so much for your support. It really is appreciated x
Lois I just wanted to add when they say he is a medium risk you have to think any sexual offence against a child isn't going to low risk of harm so that's why they catagorise it as medium like Lee said most men are at least a medium. It was also a shock to me personally I think most kids hear worse on the radio than what my person said but I understand what they mean.
my children are a similar age and they will say not likely to be a risk as he's prob not a contact offence risk and then those who contact offend upon thier own biological child is smaller.
thinking of you x
my children are a similar age and they will say not likely to be a risk as he's prob not a contact offence risk and then those who contact offend upon thier own biological child is smaller.
thinking of you x
Thanks Summer. It all makes sense, the medium risk thing. It was just a shock reading it in black and white if you know what I mean. It's upset my person too tbh.. I'm hoping it won't set him back mentally. I keep telling him I know him and I know he would never harm any child but because of the evidence he has to see it from their point of view too. :-(
Lee, I'm finding this discussion very informative, but I'm struggling to understand what is meant by the risk
Whether someone is classed medium low or high risk, is this a statement of
1 the risk of reoffending
2 the risk of contact offending
or
3 the level of harm to a child should they reoffend?
I was thinking if its (3), this seems a reach as it is dependent on (1) or (2) happening
Obviously the protection of children is paramount, but if the risk of reoffending is low then surely it follows that the risk of harm to children is also low. Of course the level of harm to a child or children, if it happens, is going to be at least medium.
Finally, what is the difference between the risk assessment by probation and social services? If they are different why is this? Why are they not the same?
Whether someone is classed medium low or high risk, is this a statement of
1 the risk of reoffending
2 the risk of contact offending
or
3 the level of harm to a child should they reoffend?
I was thinking if its (3), this seems a reach as it is dependent on (1) or (2) happening
Obviously the protection of children is paramount, but if the risk of reoffending is low then surely it follows that the risk of harm to children is also low. Of course the level of harm to a child or children, if it happens, is going to be at least medium.
Finally, what is the difference between the risk assessment by probation and social services? If they are different why is this? Why are they not the same?
Lee, SS have supposedly done a risk assessment but we've never seen it. Our SW let slip that her manager wants to stop my person taking the kids to school. This is an arrangement that's been in place for 18 months. A different manager okay'ed it. Basically I was away for a week with work, kids staying at my parents but my dad had just had major surgery for a AAA. he couldn't drive and agreed for my person to do the school run. As this worked well and school was happy it continued. The kids get in his car the same time I get in my car to leave for work. Journey to school is about 3 mins up the road, he walks them to the gate and hands them over to the teachers. It was agreed that this was OK as he was going from me to the teachers in a public place. We have a core group meeting this Thursday and I will bring it up. I don't know how they can take that away when it's been in place for so long and nothing has changed. If I took the kids to school I'd be paying £15 per day extra for breakfast club (they also go to after school club at £25 per day) and it would make me late for work. Its cost me SOOOOO much in childcare already!
So basically my point is this risk assessment, they've just conducted themselves, the SW and her manager? You think I should challenge it if they bring it up on Thursday? I actually asked them to do an independent risk assessment last year but they said only after the case with the legal side is closed. Should I push for this?
Sorry for all the questions x
So basically my point is this risk assessment, they've just conducted themselves, the SW and her manager? You think I should challenge it if they bring it up on Thursday? I actually asked them to do an independent risk assessment last year but they said only after the case with the legal side is closed. Should I push for this?
Sorry for all the questions x
I too find that annoying when replying!
Girls aged 5 and 8. School are fully aware of everything.
SS said in a CPP review meeting in August last year that they (SS) were doing a risk assessment on my partner. The last core group meeting in March they still hadn't finished it.
They weren't prepared to do an independent risk assessment until the investigation etc was over.
To add, I'm thinking of writing a letter to the judge to request no media coverage as it will be detrimental to all of us mental health wise. I know if it gets out my partner will fall to pieces and so would I. I would hate the kids to be affected. He went to court in march and there were no media there anyway but you never know x
Girls aged 5 and 8. School are fully aware of everything.
SS said in a CPP review meeting in August last year that they (SS) were doing a risk assessment on my partner. The last core group meeting in March they still hadn't finished it.
They weren't prepared to do an independent risk assessment until the investigation etc was over.
To add, I'm thinking of writing a letter to the judge to request no media coverage as it will be detrimental to all of us mental health wise. I know if it gets out my partner will fall to pieces and so would I. I would hate the kids to be affected. He went to court in march and there were no media there anyway but you never know x
Ah thanks Lee, it's very complicated, I have to say I'm still unclear, but I guess that's because I've not yet gone through the process, hopefully it's clearer when you do.
They've had 2 one to one meetings with him and they were before and after Christmas. He's done a ACEs course through SS and that was 8 sessions I think. Yeah it is a pile of crap! This is what makes me frustrated. We're sticking to everything They've asked but when it comes to them it seems its OK to let things slide a bit!
After first court date he signed onto the SOR. The police told him he can still take kids to and from school. But yes, that side of things worries me. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens after sentencing.
If there's a possibility of a letter helping then I'm prepared to try. I'm doubtful but I'd rather try and wonder if, if you know what I mean.
X x
After first court date he signed onto the SOR. The police told him he can still take kids to and from school. But yes, that side of things worries me. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens after sentencing.
If there's a possibility of a letter helping then I'm prepared to try. I'm doubtful but I'd rather try and wonder if, if you know what I mean.
X x
Bitterbean
Im not surprised it's hard to understand no one explains these things and often they will only speak to the offender.
Someone is classed medium, low or high risk, is different depending on the question you are asking I guess you are correct in thinking it's split
The risk of reoffending
The level of harm to a child/public should they reoffend? (This type of crime is very unlikely to be low because of the nature of it)
Please think of it as any offence you can commit and the risk associated so if I was stealing a joint of meat from a shop perhaps my risk to the public would be low.
You are indeed correct that the second is dependant on the first happening and we know likelyhood of reoffending for sexual offences is low. But if it was to happen it would cause harm to a child. You are right saying if it happens, is going to be at least medium.
The difference between the risk assessment by probation and social services?
Probation is looking at risk of reoffending and look at all children and the risk posed to the public with that then the rehab they put in place to mitigate the risk.
Childrens services will be looking at the children in the assessment such as the offenders own children he wants to have contact with. This is based on information gathered from all agencies and looking at the protective capacity of the other parent and any needs a family may have sometimes as part of this an independent risk assessment is done by a phycologist (LFF Steve Lowe Victoria Appleyard) to help childrens services make that assessment if the offender poses significant risk to thier children.
But does it matter what they are labelled as? Only those working with them know.
Im not surprised it's hard to understand no one explains these things and often they will only speak to the offender.
Someone is classed medium, low or high risk, is different depending on the question you are asking I guess you are correct in thinking it's split
The risk of reoffending
The level of harm to a child/public should they reoffend? (This type of crime is very unlikely to be low because of the nature of it)
Please think of it as any offence you can commit and the risk associated so if I was stealing a joint of meat from a shop perhaps my risk to the public would be low.
You are indeed correct that the second is dependant on the first happening and we know likelyhood of reoffending for sexual offences is low. But if it was to happen it would cause harm to a child. You are right saying if it happens, is going to be at least medium.
The difference between the risk assessment by probation and social services?
Probation is looking at risk of reoffending and look at all children and the risk posed to the public with that then the rehab they put in place to mitigate the risk.
Childrens services will be looking at the children in the assessment such as the offenders own children he wants to have contact with. This is based on information gathered from all agencies and looking at the protective capacity of the other parent and any needs a family may have sometimes as part of this an independent risk assessment is done by a phycologist (LFF Steve Lowe Victoria Appleyard) to help childrens services make that assessment if the offender poses significant risk to thier children.
But does it matter what they are labelled as? Only those working with them know.
Summer thanks for this I am much clearer now
I guess it matters in terms of if they get it wrong the the post conviction restrictions on the offenders life could be unfair, eg if that meant the difference between having unsupervised access to their own children or not (which can have a knock on impact to their mum if she previously relied on father if the chdren for childcare)
I guess it matters in terms of if they get it wrong the the post conviction restrictions on the offenders life could be unfair, eg if that meant the difference between having unsupervised access to their own children or not (which can have a knock on impact to their mum if she previously relied on father if the chdren for childcare)