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The order of the various processes

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MandyW

Member since
May 2019

27 posts

Posted Tue June 4, 2019 8:30amReport post

I'm trying to prepare for what's to come by understanding the processes so that I can be ready to tell people I need to tell and plan for various outcomes. Son is currently released under investigation but tells me they will find roughly 7 years worth of stuff on his electronics.



Tell me if I've got this wrong.



Next stage is that he will be called in or re arrested and charged. Then I expect a gap of 6 to 8 weeks while his solicitor gets his case together, although he will plead guilty. Then he'll appear in the local magistrates court. Then he'll be referred to the crown court for sentencing.

The gap between magistrates and crown court scare me to death. He'll go home and it will hit the local press. He will be very vulnerable and also a possible suicide risk and I'm not sure he can stay here or I want him here. I will feel at risk myself from others if I stay with him to ensure his safety. Also that gap between hearings which could take a few weeks is when I have to start telling limited people i want to hear from me.



So on to sentencing. By this time he'll have lost his job and will be in imminent danger of eviction. So if it's suspended, where does he live? I can't even think beyond a prison sentence at this stage.

Maria

Member since
September 2018

286 posts

Posted Tue June 4, 2019 9:53amReport post

Did he tell the police what would be found. If he's been interviewed and already answered questions about all the evidence then he may not be interviewed but if they haven't interviewed him about what on his devices then they will want to call him in for a further interview. When he's charged you may not actually have that long. It can be as little as two weeks between being charged and court. In some circumstances you can go straight to court. Remember not all cases go in the paper, courts are very busy places and not all court rooms have a reporter watching. Did he see mental health team when he was arrested? If he did they should be able to offer support to him all the way through. If not it's worth asking if that is available in his area. They can attend court with him etc, but I don't know if that a service that's available in all areas. He is likely to be sentenced at crown court so there will be a gap in between, it's worth him seeking support or therapy groups now if he is able to. There are groups and charities that help offenders who have been made homeless, the helpline or citizens advice should be able to help with pointing him in the right direction. He may not lose his job or tenancy but it is worth preparing for what to do if it happens. I'm sure it's extremely hard as a parent to know what to do for the best, whatever he has done it's ok to still love and want to help him.

MandyW

Member since
May 2019

27 posts

Posted Tue June 4, 2019 12:42pmReport post

Thanks Maria. That's really helpful to know

Rosa

Member since
March 2019

42 posts

Posted Tue June 4, 2019 9:58pmReport post

MandyW, in my ex’s case the process was such:

The knock with resulting interview (based on questions about what they would find) - all electronics seized.

Electronics returned roughly 4-5 months later.

Second interview 6 months after initial knock to question about what found on devices (well one device only - his laptop). Had solicitor this time, didn’t first time. Advised to say no comment all way through.



10 months after initial knock first appearance in magistrates court to answer charges.

Six weeks after first court hearing second magistrates court for possible sentencing. Deemed too big for magistrates to sentence so passed to Crown. Press were at magistrates this time so hit paper next day.

Crown court 5 weeks after second magistrates court. Ex got suspended sentence, community service, course, SHPO and 10 years on register. In press again after Crown Court.

From first knock to final sentencing 54 weeks.

Very factual post so sorry for that but might answer some questions.

JB72

Member since
October 2018

108 posts

Posted Wed June 5, 2019 4:14pmReport post

Rosa

can I ask what your husband was charged with? My husband is at the stage of second interview, the leading officer is coming to see me again on Friday then it can go to cps, my husband was advised to say no comment also throughout the interview, he still doesn’t know what he’s being charged with as originally it was just chat and arranging to meet but as there is no evidence of that but there is evidence of a small number of images it will now be a different charge, he told me that he didn’t realise clicking on a thumbnail then deleting would be classed as downloading?!? I wish I knew what we are up against

thanks jb

Trying to keep it together

Member since
February 2019

111 posts

Posted Wed June 5, 2019 9:08pmReport post

Hey JB,

Thanks for the update on your other halfs case I have been thinking about how you've been getting on. Can you clarify then- do the police have evidence of these conversations? If so they can't charge on those but can charge based on clicking a link or thumbnail( I did look that up and its generally what happens they cant pin a charge for convo so do it with the Images).

How are you and husband doing?



Ttkit

Rosa

Member since
March 2019

42 posts

Posted Wed June 5, 2019 9:48pmReport post

Hello JB72. In response, he was charged with possession of indecent images. He admitted it all in first interview without solicitor present but the police spoke to me very positively about this (of course because they were getting lots of evidence of his admission of guilt - but to be fair it seems from what they said that what he admitted to us what they found) so I’m not sure if this went in his favor.



Second interview with solicitor advised to say no comment all way through which just seemed silly after saying so much the first time.



All electronic equipment except his laptop returned after 4/5 months.



First court date charge sheet listed 3 charges: 1 for images and videos category C, one fit images category B, one for images category A. I misunderstood and thought there were only a few images and one video. Shocked when he admitted the huge number there were.



in court pleaded guilty to all charges. Rescheduled for magistrates for sentencing as magistrates struggles to decide if they could charge or needed to be dealt with at frown court. Second magistrates date decided to send to crown and that is where he got sentenced.



So in short, he knew the charges from day one when they turned up to arrest him for IIOC. He had done it and admitted it so no confusion. It transpired his actual searches stated teenage so he would have known what he was looking at was wrong.



i actually feel he ought to have gotten a custodial sentence. Am happy obviously for the sake of my children that he didn’t but it feels like he was able to ruin mine and my children’s lives and futures and is simply cleaning a bit if graffiti and tidying a few churchyards for it! I know this is totally simplified but I am working my butt off to now support 2 children and a house on my wage only, sleeping too little due to amount of work I need to do singlehandedly etc and he is living at his mum’s for nothing with a few hours work each day for penance! All focus is totally on me in regards to whether I can effectively safeguard my children, fulfill all there basic as well as emotional needs, ensure they still get lots of extra curricular opportunities (they were asked st the beginning what things they do as though the luxury of affording to take them to swimming lessons and send them to Cubs makes me a better mother!) and still allow them to see their Das because this is right for them (although it confines me to always tinetabling my like around this further constraint!)



sorry got bit rants and off point there but have been suppressing a lot recently and been detaching myself from situation as way to love forward...clearly not there yet! :)

Rosa

Member since
March 2019

42 posts

Posted Wed June 5, 2019 9:51pmReport post

Apologies for so many typos, I can’t reread all i’ve Written before I post!

JB72

Member since
October 2018

108 posts

Posted Wed June 5, 2019 9:52pmReport post

Thanks ttkit

i think I’m finding it harder than him and I think that’s down to me researching things and getting information off you guys and hearing your experiences and the knowledge you’ve all gained from this i now have more of an understanding that I know what could happen! Whereas he appears to be burying his head in the sand or just incredibly naive I’m not sure, he’s still under the impression he hasn’t done anything too bad even though there are images! He must have been in a conversation to open an image surely? He’s adamant he hasn’t saved or distributed any. I think it’s going to be a lot worse than he thinks and now I’m scared I’ll lose my home and it will be in the media I’m feeling a bit like I did in the beginning, I’m terrified of what the police are going to say on Friday, I’m trying to prepare for an interview I’ve got on Monday it couldn’t have come at a worse time cause I’ve no idea where my head will be over the weekend but I’ve waited for this job for ages :(((

hows your situation going? Any further on?

x

Trying to keep it together

Member since
February 2019

111 posts

Posted Wed June 5, 2019 9:55pmReport post

Hi Rosa,

Thanks for sharing your story, can I ask what sentence your husband got and was it published in the press?

I'm really trying to gauge where my husband will land in the scale of things and just want an idea of as much info as possible.

I totally get those frustrations about you having to hold down the house and finances etc- I'm feeling that too at the moment as my other halfs work situation has changed(which I agreed to support) and even though I'm supporting him in what hes doing now etc I'm just feeling the pressure a bit to make sure everything is kept together financially.

Ttkit

Trying to keep it together

Member since
February 2019

111 posts

Posted Wed June 5, 2019 10:08pmReport post

Hey JB,

I think your other half may be a bit naive but again that could be because we are reading about each other's cases etc.

I think these things can go all sorts of ways so you just have to see how it plays out. I don't think it matters if they download or distribute it's about viewing them, this is what the helpline have been very clear about with my husband.

I think we have always worked off worst case scenario that he would get a suspended sentence and if we get better then we are winning.

In terms of the job- I know how you feel- I turned down the chance of a different job as I just need go be able to do my current job well and not be learning anything new. If.you have an interview go for it, it may go better than expected as you will focus the mind and be brilliant!

In terms of us no further forward, investigating officer was.meant.to come.back to us 3 weeks.ago and she didn't so hes going to call her again next week.for an update. Still not gone to cps.

Ttkit

Rosa

Member since
March 2019

42 posts

Posted Thu June 6, 2019 3:18amReport post

Ttkit, he got an 8 month suspended sentence suspended for 2 years, 150 hours community service, a 32 hour course to attend, a SHPO that drops him emptying the recycling bin and deleting browser history on any devices and no peer to peer software plus 10 years in the sex offenders register and a £100 fine.

He lost his job when he told them about court vas he was deemed as having brought the company into disrepute.

It went to press after the second magistrate hearing which thanks to someone who he had worked with who also had a child in my child’s class who decided to ring the school and ask all sorts of questions about whether my ex had been on site because she was ‘representing the fears of ‘many’ Mums’ meant I was forced to finally explain a bit more to my son about why me and his dad split, which was a horrible conversation to have and life changing for him but had to be done before it came from anyone else.



i have since had another woman that worked with him question me on the school playground about how my place of work have reacted (I work with children) to which I had to point out that I have done nothing wrong and also question me about whether the kids see their dad - nothong more than gossip and fact finding. Everyone else who knows and has spoken to me about it has been lovely though.



Waa back in the press after the crown court appearance and sentencing but as this was during a school holiday it seems to have not had the same impact.



Hope that helps. X

Rainbow

Member since
January 2019

282 posts

Posted Thu June 6, 2019 7:04amReport post

Hi Rosa

Can I ask what course your husband is doing? My husband has just started 1. Its once a week and finished in Feb next year. It's a 1.5 hour drive from where we live and its 2 hours each week. He asked probation if anything closer and shorter but nothing. It's hard because he has to finish work early plus probation only work 1 eve which he used to attend but cant now as it's the same evening as the course. They say they will work round job etc but how can they and so far its proving to be quite tricky. X

Rosa

Member since
March 2019

42 posts

Posted Thu June 6, 2019 7:28amReport post

Dear Rainbow,

i don’t know that i’m afraid. I chose not to stand by him as he pretty much admitted when the knock came that he had done what they suspected him of and I couldn’t get over the betrayal of trust to not just me but the children also. He lied all along about severity of it all and so I just don’t ask him anything beyond what I need to know for the sake of the children. I can try and find out though.



Rosa

Rainbow

Member since
January 2019

282 posts

Posted Thu June 6, 2019 7:45amReport post

Rosa ok no problem thanks. Hope you and your family are doing ok x

JB72

Member since
October 2018

108 posts

Posted Thu June 6, 2019 10:58amReport post

Thanks Rosa for your reply, sorry I didn’t see it last night I must have been typing at the same time as you, it all sounds very similar so I know what roughly to expect, although it seems different areas, judges etc all have different outcomes but it obviously won’t be a simple caution which I think is what he’s hoping!

hope you and your family are ok, stay strong your children will know the sacrifices you’ve made when they’re old enough xx

Trying to keep it together

Member since
February 2019

111 posts

Posted Thu June 6, 2019 8:51pmReport post

Hey JB,

I think a caution is unlikely for both you and me unfortunately but who knows they have them as an option for a reason but I haven't seen a single person on here mention a caution as their outcome.

However I have read about alot of cases going to caution due to a number of factors so there is always hope.

Good luck for tomorrow and more importantly good luck for Monday!

Ttkit

Mabel

Member since
June 2019

208 posts

Posted Wed June 12, 2019 9:41amReport post

Hi Ttkit

I hope you don’t mind me asking you, I'm new to this forum, my partner was caught by a vigilante group, our devices were seized but he assures me there is nothing on any devices, he was doing it all from his mobile phone. He was in chat rooms on this. Am I right in understanding that the CPS don’t use the conversations as evidence?..just links?

He was arrested a year ago this month and we have heard nothing, we haven’t got our devices back either. He was released under investigation with no conditions at all. This happened in a place far away from our home town. I am hoping if it goes to court it will be in the place he was arrested, our solicitor can’t say where it will be.

I am hoping for a caution as well but like you say it doesn’t seem to be mentioned on here.

Thanks

Mabel x

Trying to keep it together

Member since
February 2019

111 posts

Posted Wed June 12, 2019 9:58amReport post

Hey Mabel,

From what I understand the chat room offences are a massively grey area and usually the police work on any images that are sent in links or clicked on etc to pass to prosecution as conversations dont hold up in court alot.of the time. I think it very much depends on the content of the conversations as well as to what extent they are used/considered.

I know in my husbands case he didn't send or store or create images but he did click on links and it was what he saw that threw him off course and stopped the course conversation in its tracks. But as he viewed them he still broke the law.

Time is a killer isn't it? We are 7 months in, all his work stuff was returned and clear and we know all other devices have been checked and are all clear with the exception of the detailed conversation he was arrested for.

We've just been carrying on with day.to day life and I know it's easier said than done for some but honestly I dont have the energy to worry about what I cannot control. We are lucky we dont have children and therefore no SS to deal with on top of this mess.

Has your husband started looking st any courses/self.help or therapy?

Ttkit

Mabel

Member since
June 2019

208 posts

Posted Wed June 12, 2019 10:17amReport post

Hi again Tkit

thanks for your reply.

Yes he has been having 2 sessions of therapy every week since it happened. He has a porn addiction, tho he says it as only adult porn he looked at.

That is interesting about the chat room logs, I presume the vigilante group have given the police these logs that they have recorded, I don’t know the content, I don’t really want to!

It is so awful being in limbo but I some ways at least he’s not in Prison!



I like your used name, it really sums up how I feel!

Mabel x

Trying to keep it together

Member since
February 2019

111 posts

Posted Wed June 12, 2019 10:39amReport post

Hey Mabel,

I dont really know much about vigilante groups and what is used or not but I hate the process they follow.

Ttkit

Mabel

Member since
June 2019

208 posts

Posted Wed June 12, 2019 10:54amReport post

Hi again Tkit

yes I hate them as well! Especially when they live stream, luckily they didn’t with my partner.

It is really a form of bullying and I am surprised it’s even allowed to carry on.

Thanks again for you reply

Mabel x

Maria

Member since
September 2018

286 posts

Posted Wed June 12, 2019 11:34amReport post

Mabel, yes they can and do sometimes use the chat log. My partner had no images, did not click on any links or underage profiles. He was prosecuted based on not stopping on sexual conversation when it was mentioned they were not old enough. He did not mention meeting up, picture or having any further conversations but it is still an offence to have or attempt to have sexual communication with a minor. In my partners case the minor was a police officer. The only evidence again him was a conversation gone too far, he too had a porn addiction/chat roomaddiction with adult women.

Mabel

Member since
June 2019

208 posts

Posted Wed June 12, 2019 1:52pmReport post

Hi Maria,

thanks for your reply.

yes I did wonder if they had the chat log evidence from the vigilante group that they would surely use it.

Can I ask please what your husband got for his offence? Was it in the press?

Mabel x

Maria

Member since
September 2018

286 posts

Posted Wed June 12, 2019 2:04pmReport post

He got 5 years sor and shpo (only relating to computer monitoring), suspended prison sentence and community service. Yes it was mentioned in the press but it wasn't too bad, no one said anything to me do I have no idea if people saw it or not. At first his sentenced seemed harsh (everyone said it was) but now I think it was fair and he's getting the help and support he needs to stay away from porm and chatting. While I'm disgusted he had that conversation I was relieved there was nothing else.

nicenana

Member since
March 2019

243 posts

Posted Wed June 12, 2019 11:14pmReport post

The correct procedure Hi

in my sons case the conversation was taken into account when it went to court. He was not caught by a vigilante group though thank god. He was actually talking to a 14/15 year old. He was arrested October and went to court in February which is quite quick from what I gather. His case was in the paper with his picture but online and not in print. It was not good but I’m glad it wasn’t the vigilante people who posted it on the internet. It seems to me that them groups have so many followers that much more people would have seen it than did had it been them that caught him. I agree with the police catching people but not them groups. I’d go as far as to say that those groups entrap people. They set them up for a fall. Only in our country is this legal. Just to be clear, I do not agree or defend anyone who downloads images or does what my son does. I just believe it should be left to the police and not a group of amateurs who don’t even know the correct procedure to follow. All their interested in is posting videos online that nine times out of ten destroy innocent family members. You don’t see the police posting videos like that online so the vigilante people just shouldn’t be allowed to do this. Their whole website should be closed off and that’s coming from someone who’s family member was not even caught by them!!!! Sorry rant over.

Mabel

Member since
June 2019

208 posts

Posted Thu June 13, 2019 8:23pmReport post

Thanks everyone for your replies.

i totally agree with you Nicenana, I could not have put it better myself! These groups are unlawful and should not be allowed to carry on, especially with the live streaming, it absolutely makes my blood boil they do this, it’s bullying and like you say they set people up!

I do think one day..hopefully very soon, they will be outlawed because they cannot carry on the way they operate.

Maria yes I do think it seemed harsh your husband got a suspended sentence, it seems to vary so much what people get for similar actions.

Mabel x