Arranging and facilitating Not guilty plea
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Hi, my partner has been charged with arranging and facilitating the commissioning of a child sex offence. He was chatting with a woman (police decoy) online and the conversation ended up being about her fake 9 year old child. I now wonder if they chose a 9 year old because they maybe knew he has a 9 year old himself. There was talk of meeting up but it never happened as he stopped the conversation. He told me the woman wanted him to meet the child straight away but he said no, he wanted to meet the woman only. No images of any children were exchanged. But he did send an explicit image of himself.
He says he never had any intention of meeting up and believed it all to be a fantasy. We were going through a really difficult time together and had broken up while this was going on.
He's pleaded not guilty on the basis he never had any intention to go.
I'm just wondering if anyone knows of anyone that went not guilty and what the outcome was.
He says he never had any intention of meeting up and believed it all to be a fantasy. We were going through a really difficult time together and had broken up while this was going on.
He's pleaded not guilty on the basis he never had any intention to go.
I'm just wondering if anyone knows of anyone that went not guilty and what the outcome was.
Hi Suzie
my partner has is under arrest for the same offence, but won't give me any details of what happened as I'm being used as a witness for the prosecution- I suspect it's very similar to your partners situation. Hee just had bail extended for another three months.
feel free to private message me as our circumstances seem very similar..,take care
my partner has is under arrest for the same offence, but won't give me any details of what happened as I'm being used as a witness for the prosecution- I suspect it's very similar to your partners situation. Hee just had bail extended for another three months.
feel free to private message me as our circumstances seem very similar..,take care
As Lee said, fantasy or not/ real child or not, it's illegal to speak about a child in a sexual way. Sentencing is even harsher for 12 years old and under I believe. All depends on what was in those conversations and intent/potential harm I believe...
Hi Suzie, the situation is very similar to my person's. He had a conversation with a women online about her daughter. It was a decoy police officer thankfully. My person said the conversation was more about the woman than the child, feeding her fantasy / role play (which from knowing him, I can see how this would be the case and I've seen some of the conversation - Part of it is still on the forum BDSM/ swinger that I can read).
He had no arrangement to meet. He also sent images and videos to the adult.
He too originally plead not guilty. It took a while for the penny to drop, but the police see that he was intending/ wanting to do this. There is not room for grey. Even if he wasn't intending on meeting, the conversations is very likely to be considered facilitating a child sex act (for perspective, this offence can be applied to people who request sex acts to be inflicted on children in countries abroad).
It is extremely tough as so much fantasy / role play / escapism happens on the internet but if police are reading the conversation, there is often little or nothing to differentiate between someone having what they thought was a role play conversation and someone having a conversation with real intent. I honestly think the only defence would be if he'd ever said something about it being role play, but even then there are other charges that could be brought to him.
My partner changed he plea to guilty following CPS agreeing to change the charge to a (very) marginally less severe charge.
It is important he sees all the evidence against him.
He had no arrangement to meet. He also sent images and videos to the adult.
He too originally plead not guilty. It took a while for the penny to drop, but the police see that he was intending/ wanting to do this. There is not room for grey. Even if he wasn't intending on meeting, the conversations is very likely to be considered facilitating a child sex act (for perspective, this offence can be applied to people who request sex acts to be inflicted on children in countries abroad).
It is extremely tough as so much fantasy / role play / escapism happens on the internet but if police are reading the conversation, there is often little or nothing to differentiate between someone having what they thought was a role play conversation and someone having a conversation with real intent. I honestly think the only defence would be if he'd ever said something about it being role play, but even then there are other charges that could be brought to him.
My partner changed he plea to guilty following CPS agreeing to change the charge to a (very) marginally less severe charge.
It is important he sees all the evidence against him.
My OH did similar, and has been charged with facilitating along with distribution. He pleaded Not Guilty at his Crown Court plea hearing but is reconsidering changing his plea to guilty as he's worried it won't go in his favour, especially if it goes to trial by jury. He says he was more interested in the mindset of the 'father', an undercover police officer, that doing anything with a 7 year old girl.
Sal, out of interest, what happened when you OH changed his plea? Has he been convicted yet?
At first he went to a goodyear hearing where the judge is supposed to give and indication of the sentence if he plead guilty to the new charge. The judge refused to offer one but gave indication the category it would fall in. He had a couple of minutes to decide whether to accept the lesser offence and plead guilty to it. He did this and 2-3 weeks later he was sentenced. 3 years and 4 months.
I might be naive, but I honestly think some men think they can't be doing anything illegal by "just" talking. The platform he was on had a huge amount of "fantasy" chat.
I might be naive, but I honestly think some men think they can't be doing anything illegal by "just" talking. The platform he was on had a huge amount of "fantasy" chat.
Thanks so much for all your replies.
His solicitor and barrister gave him the advice to go not guilty and I don't think he'll change his mind. He's trying to be positive and has completely changed his life around, new job, counselling etc.
To add to it all I work in the type of job that has direct contact with men who commit sexual offences and so I know what could happen in terms of his sentence and restrictions.
If he is found guilty I'll be forced to end our relationship. And it makes me more angry with him because he knows what I do!!
My job also makes me more understanding of the things that led to him committing the offence and so I'm able to seperate that from him as a person. I honestly wish it was not the case as it would be easier to just hate him and end it all now.
I guess I'm just thinking that most people in this situation go guilty so we don't really know what the likely outcome is if he goes not guilty.
He won't show me the evidence (what he wrote) but I do know it was full penetration which is the most serious and carries the most serious sentence.
His solicitor and barrister gave him the advice to go not guilty and I don't think he'll change his mind. He's trying to be positive and has completely changed his life around, new job, counselling etc.
To add to it all I work in the type of job that has direct contact with men who commit sexual offences and so I know what could happen in terms of his sentence and restrictions.
If he is found guilty I'll be forced to end our relationship. And it makes me more angry with him because he knows what I do!!
My job also makes me more understanding of the things that led to him committing the offence and so I'm able to seperate that from him as a person. I honestly wish it was not the case as it would be easier to just hate him and end it all now.
I guess I'm just thinking that most people in this situation go guilty so we don't really know what the likely outcome is if he goes not guilty.
He won't show me the evidence (what he wrote) but I do know it was full penetration which is the most serious and carries the most serious sentence.
thanks for sharing your experiences. My person was arrested for a very similar scenario and he is on bail, no charge yet.
SAL - were the images that your person shared with the adult (police decoy) of children? Just wondering if that added to the charge / sentence.
3y 4m sounds long given there was no actual meeting or intent shown.
I've looked into the reasons why the sentencing for arranging and facilitating a child sexual offence were changed in 2022 to be based on the substantive offence. In all of the cases that contributed to the law being changed, the person was arrested at the arranged meeting point, therefore showing clear intent.
Do you know how much of a reduction in the sentence was given based on the fact your person didn't actually go to a meeting point or show intent that he would?
SAL - were the images that your person shared with the adult (police decoy) of children? Just wondering if that added to the charge / sentence.
3y 4m sounds long given there was no actual meeting or intent shown.
I've looked into the reasons why the sentencing for arranging and facilitating a child sexual offence were changed in 2022 to be based on the substantive offence. In all of the cases that contributed to the law being changed, the person was arrested at the arranged meeting point, therefore showing clear intent.
Do you know how much of a reduction in the sentence was given based on the fact your person didn't actually go to a meeting point or show intent that he would?
No images of children were shared. Literally one protracted conversation with thr decoy. Nothing else illegal found. There were loose discussion such as I visit X area for work often.
The law see it that just by talking about doing something with a child you have intent or are facilitating the abuse. If there wasn't any specific child mentioned then I think it would be different for example I'd like to do X to a child (non specific) is different to I'd like to do this to your child.
It is worth remembering that facilitating is a conviction applied to people that instruct abuse of children from abroad, but don't ever touch the child themselves.
It will be dependent on what was said in the conversation. My person was going to go not guilty, his barrister said there was a case, not a strong one, but there was a case. At sentencing the barrister said to the judge that he believed his client (my partner) believed it was a role play conversation and hadn't believe there was an actual child, that he hadn't specially been seeking this interaction but had been seeking more extreme sexual exploration driven by sex and porn addiction. He had very little mitigations - He genuinely didn't think it would come to a charge. Knowing how he thinks I can see why.
The law see it that just by talking about doing something with a child you have intent or are facilitating the abuse. If there wasn't any specific child mentioned then I think it would be different for example I'd like to do X to a child (non specific) is different to I'd like to do this to your child.
It is worth remembering that facilitating is a conviction applied to people that instruct abuse of children from abroad, but don't ever touch the child themselves.
It will be dependent on what was said in the conversation. My person was going to go not guilty, his barrister said there was a case, not a strong one, but there was a case. At sentencing the barrister said to the judge that he believed his client (my partner) believed it was a role play conversation and hadn't believe there was an actual child, that he hadn't specially been seeking this interaction but had been seeking more extreme sexual exploration driven by sex and porn addiction. He had very little mitigations - He genuinely didn't think it would come to a charge. Knowing how he thinks I can see why.
Thanks SAL for your reply. The sentence seems so long for what is only a conversation but I understand that it's near impossible to separate conversations with intent from those without intent.
wishing you all the best x
wishing you all the best x