Trigger warning; overhead conversation
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Hi,
I'm so sorry if this impacts anyone negatively. I need to get it out of my head so writing on here is the best way for me to do so in a safe space.
Was out today in a local pub and recognised a group of women at a neighbouring table as lunchtime supervisors at my older kids old primary school. They started talking about a dad from the preschool where one works and another has a child who attends. He had been caught by vigilantes. The one whose child attends the preschool had seen the video online and brought it to the attention of the preschool and from what I can gather also the primary school where his child will be attending or already has a child there (it wasn't completely clear).
She was shocked that the preschool hadn't banned him from the premises although no charges had been brought and he only collects when supervised by his partner. The woman who works at the preschool said she wasn't aware of it, I presume the position she holds is not a dsl so has no reason to be aware.
I am so upset that people who work with children don't stop and think about our children in all of their gossiping and realise that safeguarding them mentally is as important as safeguarding the other children in the setting from the far fetched fears that they were spouting such as the dad could take pictures of the other children in the preschool at their graduation etc. I should add that no photography is allowed during the preschool events as I'm sure is common in all educational settings now.
I also wish I knew who the family are so I could reach out and offer support and tell them about this forum but even if I did I wouldn't want them to know how I found out.
Closing thought is; why does everyone think that the best way to protect their children is to know who everyone on the SOR or who is being investigated for these crimes are? I could have known who everyone is in my area and it wouldn't have made any difference to how I protect my children or stopped me from living with my person as this was his first offence. I hope my ramblings make sense to some of you and again apologies if I've upset anyone xxx
I'm so sorry if this impacts anyone negatively. I need to get it out of my head so writing on here is the best way for me to do so in a safe space.
Was out today in a local pub and recognised a group of women at a neighbouring table as lunchtime supervisors at my older kids old primary school. They started talking about a dad from the preschool where one works and another has a child who attends. He had been caught by vigilantes. The one whose child attends the preschool had seen the video online and brought it to the attention of the preschool and from what I can gather also the primary school where his child will be attending or already has a child there (it wasn't completely clear).
She was shocked that the preschool hadn't banned him from the premises although no charges had been brought and he only collects when supervised by his partner. The woman who works at the preschool said she wasn't aware of it, I presume the position she holds is not a dsl so has no reason to be aware.
I am so upset that people who work with children don't stop and think about our children in all of their gossiping and realise that safeguarding them mentally is as important as safeguarding the other children in the setting from the far fetched fears that they were spouting such as the dad could take pictures of the other children in the preschool at their graduation etc. I should add that no photography is allowed during the preschool events as I'm sure is common in all educational settings now.
I also wish I knew who the family are so I could reach out and offer support and tell them about this forum but even if I did I wouldn't want them to know how I found out.
Closing thought is; why does everyone think that the best way to protect their children is to know who everyone on the SOR or who is being investigated for these crimes are? I could have known who everyone is in my area and it wouldn't have made any difference to how I protect my children or stopped me from living with my person as this was his first offence. I hope my ramblings make sense to some of you and again apologies if I've upset anyone xxx
It is out of order for school staff to openly discuss private matters in all places a pub and very irresponsible. I would personally put in a complaint. confidentiality is paramount to safeguarding the children in your care, this needs pointing out to these ladies!!!!!
I worked in early years education for many years as a lunchtime supervisor than as a qualified nursery practitioner and yes you do become a big part of the children's families. As humans we do 'talk' to each other BUT this (gossip)was certainly not allowed in my experience - even in the staff room! Definately not casually in a pub......
I worked in early years education for many years as a lunchtime supervisor than as a qualified nursery practitioner and yes you do become a big part of the children's families. As humans we do 'talk' to each other BUT this (gossip)was certainly not allowed in my experience - even in the staff room! Definately not casually in a pub......
I would definitely report this to the schools.
hopefully, the other family has found the forum too xxx
hopefully, the other family has found the forum too xxx
If you contact the school -
you can ask to remain anonymous.......
you can ask to remain anonymous.......
You should definitely inform the school about this and you can ask to remain anonymous.
it is completely unprofessional for these women to be openly discussing this in a public place and they need to be reminded of the duty of care and safeguarding regarding the children and family concerned.
I worked for many years at a senior level in Education and yes people do gossip unfortunately but there are clear guidelines which should be followed and this is unacceptable.
it is completely unprofessional for these women to be openly discussing this in a public place and they need to be reminded of the duty of care and safeguarding regarding the children and family concerned.
I worked for many years at a senior level in Education and yes people do gossip unfortunately but there are clear guidelines which should be followed and this is unacceptable.
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Thank you ladies. I couldn't work out if it was my emotions getting the better of me but I will definitely report it.
Tricky bit is I don't know their names so it may have to be worded as a training need/reminder for all staff no matter what position they hold in the preschool and school xxx
Tricky bit is I don't know their names so it may have to be worded as a training need/reminder for all staff no matter what position they hold in the preschool and school xxx
This makes me so sad and worried, my daughter isn't even 2 yet so not in nursery or school and this really terrifies me that this will be her future :(, the talk of the school.
Please report this as these ladies need to realise there are eyes and ears everywhere nowadays, it would only take one of the family's that go to the school to hear and it would spread like wildfire leaving this family vunerable.
Could you report describing what these ladies looked like maybe?
Please report this as these ladies need to realise there are eyes and ears everywhere nowadays, it would only take one of the family's that go to the school to hear and it would spread like wildfire leaving this family vunerable.
Could you report describing what these ladies looked like maybe?
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Hi Distressed. I wouldn't worry about the identification of those concerned. Surely the school would send out a memo to all staff.
im sure they'd jump on it, better a complaint made direct to them than the matter put forward to the dreaded ofsted!!!!!!
Let us know of their response......
im sure they'd jump on it, better a complaint made direct to them than the matter put forward to the dreaded ofsted!!!!!!
Let us know of their response......
I agree you must report/complain to the school but I don't think it matters about the ID of those concerned as the whole staff needs reminding. The guilty ones will know it's them, I'm sure. When I was a teacher I never knew about anything sensitive in another class and certainly would never share anything about my own pupils and their families. The only exception was if we needed to know about anyone forbidden from picking their child up, in case we encountered them around the school site, but never the reason why.
Gossip will occur, especially by women, but from my experience, gossip is mainly done by people who don't know all the facts, they've just heard rumours and people who are uneducated on this type of situation. Unfortunately, they will never be educated on this unless it happens to them and it could. I would report this if the woman who works in the school was actively involved in the conversation. We are already dealing with so much, we should feel that when we send our children to childcare settings that they and we are not going to be openly judged by staff about our personal lives.
Hi Distressed - could be tricky now to put in a complaint as most schools I should think have broke up for the summer.
it might mean you sending in an e mail. I'm sure you'd still get a response on something so important.
it might mean you sending in an e mail. I'm sure you'd still get a response on something so important.
I've been thinking about this and I think you could be a bit canny here and contact the school and preschool to say that you were considering sending your child there but were very concerned about confidentiality/ safeguarding after overhearing the conversation amongst these staff members in a public place.
Did they actually name the school in the conversation?- if so then any Headteacher would be very concerned I would imagine about the reputation of the school and should certainly look very carefully at their staff training and recruitment.
Also the fact that person concerned was discussing vigilante groups is concerning me
Did they actually name the school in the conversation?- if so then any Headteacher would be very concerned I would imagine about the reputation of the school and should certainly look very carefully at their staff training and recruitment.
Also the fact that person concerned was discussing vigilante groups is concerning me
All staff when recruited have to sign a confidentiality form. I would email the headteacher so that your email is received on first day of term. Most schools update their safeguarding training during inset days at the beginning of term so this would be a perfect time for heads to discuss this with staff.
Hi,
Thank you all for your responses.
Seaside, no they didn't name the school or preschool it's only because I know them from when my older children attended that I was aware of where they were discussing.
I have decided to email both the preschool and the school and explain the situation. They will remember me from my time as a parent there and I believe that I am respected enough for them to deal with it with the seriousness it warrants. I don't want to jeopardise anyone's roles so I won't be adding in descriptions of the women involved, they have families to provide for too. I am also considering adding in my contact details to be passed to the family involved to offer some support. I will obviously add in the link to LFF too as a resource both for the family and for the DSLs to provide some education xxx
Thank you all for your responses.
Seaside, no they didn't name the school or preschool it's only because I know them from when my older children attended that I was aware of where they were discussing.
I have decided to email both the preschool and the school and explain the situation. They will remember me from my time as a parent there and I believe that I am respected enough for them to deal with it with the seriousness it warrants. I don't want to jeopardise anyone's roles so I won't be adding in descriptions of the women involved, they have families to provide for too. I am also considering adding in my contact details to be passed to the family involved to offer some support. I will obviously add in the link to LFF too as a resource both for the family and for the DSLs to provide some education xxx
I can see where you are coming from. You don't want heads to roll but want to get across these things are confidential and certainly not to be discussed so openly in public......
Just curious Distressed - did you send in a complaint?
Good afternoon,
I’m emailing you after much deliberation regarding what I feel is a safeguarding issue that needs to be addressed.On Tuesday 25th July I went for lunch in the Wetherspoons at X and sat close to a table occupied by a group of women I recognised as lunchtime supervisors at X school. During the course of my time there they were discussing a recent incident where a relative of a child who attends/has recently left X preschool who had been live-streamed by a vigilante group after having a sexual conversation with a decoy posing as a child. My concerns are regarding confidentiality as the child will most likely attend your school in the near future and for staff to discuss such issues whilst sat in the local pub where anyone can overhear their conversation it doesn’t inspire confidence that this child won’t be pointed out to other staff members or indeed children as one of the women I believe is a parent at preschool. I’m sure you can appreciate the devastating impact that could have on this small child entering into a school environment and the isolation that could potentially arise as a result.I remember my children’s time at the school fondly and I know that you will update your staff on the importance of confidentiality and the fact that safeguarding issues of individual children are on a need to know basis not for all staff to be aware of them and certainly not to be discussed outside of a professional setting. I do not know the women’s names and also do not want to cause problems for them in their workplace but I would like assurances that you will provide the necessary safeguarding guidance to all staff members no matter what position they hold please.Having been through a similar situation I’d like to offer support to the family and staff members who deal with these types of crimes. I’m open to being contacted but if this isn’t appropriate then please pass on the details of a charity called Lucy Faithfull Foundation. There are resources on there for families and also for professionals. I hope that you are keeping well and that you can understand my concerns.Kind regards
I sent this earlier today. I'll keep you updated xxx
I’m emailing you after much deliberation regarding what I feel is a safeguarding issue that needs to be addressed.On Tuesday 25th July I went for lunch in the Wetherspoons at X and sat close to a table occupied by a group of women I recognised as lunchtime supervisors at X school. During the course of my time there they were discussing a recent incident where a relative of a child who attends/has recently left X preschool who had been live-streamed by a vigilante group after having a sexual conversation with a decoy posing as a child. My concerns are regarding confidentiality as the child will most likely attend your school in the near future and for staff to discuss such issues whilst sat in the local pub where anyone can overhear their conversation it doesn’t inspire confidence that this child won’t be pointed out to other staff members or indeed children as one of the women I believe is a parent at preschool. I’m sure you can appreciate the devastating impact that could have on this small child entering into a school environment and the isolation that could potentially arise as a result.I remember my children’s time at the school fondly and I know that you will update your staff on the importance of confidentiality and the fact that safeguarding issues of individual children are on a need to know basis not for all staff to be aware of them and certainly not to be discussed outside of a professional setting. I do not know the women’s names and also do not want to cause problems for them in their workplace but I would like assurances that you will provide the necessary safeguarding guidance to all staff members no matter what position they hold please.Having been through a similar situation I’d like to offer support to the family and staff members who deal with these types of crimes. I’m open to being contacted but if this isn’t appropriate then please pass on the details of a charity called Lucy Faithfull Foundation. There are resources on there for families and also for professionals. I hope that you are keeping well and that you can understand my concerns.Kind regards
I sent this earlier today. I'll keep you updated xxx
Ok, so response from preschool wasn't great to be honest. It was I have no idea who you are on about, as far as I am aware no parent of any child at preschool works at X primary school. I can assure you that all my staff are properly trained. Regards
I added a paragraph to the top of my original email to the school stating that I believe one of the women works at preschool and although not an active participant in the conversation I believe she should have tried to stop it but I do appreciate the position she was put in.
I didn't/don't want an investigation or anything like that just some acknowledgment that this isn't acceptable and further training will be given xxx
I added a paragraph to the top of my original email to the school stating that I believe one of the women works at preschool and although not an active participant in the conversation I believe she should have tried to stop it but I do appreciate the position she was put in.
I didn't/don't want an investigation or anything like that just some acknowledgment that this isn't acceptable and further training will be given xxx
I think that is a very good email and hopefully you will get a response.
I've been thinking about the whole safeguarding situation regarding families and it is absolutely unacceptable that there is so little support available.
Also I'm wondering what the rules are about visits from the visor -so far he has made 2 visits both pre-planned and I have chosen not to be present either time but my husband has been there to support our son.
I know that if he turns up unannounced and my son isn't there then I can refuse him access but what happens if he turns up when my son is alone in the house?
I may be naive or overthinking but it does raise the question of safeguarding my son as we all know that the police are not above lying..surely there should be another person present?
I've been thinking about the whole safeguarding situation regarding families and it is absolutely unacceptable that there is so little support available.
Also I'm wondering what the rules are about visits from the visor -so far he has made 2 visits both pre-planned and I have chosen not to be present either time but my husband has been there to support our son.
I know that if he turns up unannounced and my son isn't there then I can refuse him access but what happens if he turns up when my son is alone in the house?
I may be naive or overthinking but it does raise the question of safeguarding my son as we all know that the police are not above lying..surely there should be another person present?
Hi Seaside,
I have put the response from preschool above your response. I'm not happy with it but I don't have the energy to deal with that level of ridiculousness so I just won't send my daughter there when the time comes.
With regards to your son and visor, I'm not sure how they would regard safeguarding in the situation of him being alone. I can't remember if your son is vulnerable in any way but I believe if he is and they are aware then he should have an appropriate person with him. My persons visor is female and generally brings a male officer with her on home visits or at least she did for the first few visits xxx
I have put the response from preschool above your response. I'm not happy with it but I don't have the energy to deal with that level of ridiculousness so I just won't send my daughter there when the time comes.
With regards to your son and visor, I'm not sure how they would regard safeguarding in the situation of him being alone. I can't remember if your son is vulnerable in any way but I believe if he is and they are aware then he should have an appropriate person with him. My persons visor is female and generally brings a male officer with her on home visits or at least she did for the first few visits xxx
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Hi Lee unfortunately we seem to have been landed with a visor who has a massive God complex and who is a really unpleasant individual-he has made threats and some very unpleasant comments .
I can't face being in the same room as him because I have PTSD following the knock and this is triggered by any interaction with the Police and I really don't trust them at all.
I can't face being in the same room as him because I have PTSD following the knock and this is triggered by any interaction with the Police and I really don't trust them at all.
You've made your point Distressed and I can understand not wanting a massive fuss, so be it- the mail you sent was perfectly worded and you've made your point.
Thanks Lee yes we have made a complaint now but I don't hold out too much hope that we will get anywhere and my son is concerned that things could be made worse by doing this ( as was implied by the visor)
Lee yes we sent the complaint to the chief of Police in our area.
The visor stated when my son questioned something and challenged him on it that "he wasn't doing himself any favours and that life could get much worse if he continued to ask questions "
He also stated that he could contact the local press here(we relocated following the knock which was unrelated to the crime and the case was heard in our former location)
The visor stated when my son questioned something and challenged him on it that "he wasn't doing himself any favours and that life could get much worse if he continued to ask questions "
He also stated that he could contact the local press here(we relocated following the knock which was unrelated to the crime and the case was heard in our former location)
Thanks Smile, I think I've done the right thing by the child. If my email goes towards educating one person about how to properly safeguard all children then I'll be happy xxx
You could press it further, but I'm always reluctant to add on even more stress..... I think very carefully about what I take on these days!
Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm very cautious about what I put my energy into now, I never know when I'll need it. I feel like I've said what I needed to and what they choose to do with the information is on them. I'm hopeful for a more thoughtful response from the school but not expecting a response until the start of term in September xxx
Distressed yes exactly that if your email helps one child or family then that's good and there definitely needs to be more awareness of safeguarding in schools.
I really wish there was a way in which we could act as Ambassadors for LFF to promote their work in schools
I really wish there was a way in which we could act as Ambassadors for LFF to promote their work in schools
I meant to say in my last post.... send it to the Chair of Governors as well as the HT. The governors have a duty to investigate
Thank you @Losteverything. I am hopeful that the headteacher will respond in a different way to the owner of the preschool and I'm happy not to take it any further. I have said what I felt I needed to but as I said previously I'm not in a position to take on battles that aren't mine.
I don't know names of anyone involved including the family going through this so I feel that starting a witch hunt over the conversation wouldn't be particularly helpful right now. They have families to provide for too and made an error in judgment. I don't believe it warrants facing any action other than further training on safeguarding and the implications surrounding the child/children who have an offending parent and I think all staff could do with a reminder that you never know who may hear your conversations xxx
I don't know names of anyone involved including the family going through this so I feel that starting a witch hunt over the conversation wouldn't be particularly helpful right now. They have families to provide for too and made an error in judgment. I don't believe it warrants facing any action other than further training on safeguarding and the implications surrounding the child/children who have an offending parent and I think all staff could do with a reminder that you never know who may hear your conversations xxx
Seaside - your visor experience is almost identical to our son's OIC's behaviour when he's asked a perfectly valid question about how to interpret his sparsely worded bail conditions because he was scared he'd breach them without meaning to. At first his email was ignored so he sent a polite reminder and received a reply quoting a long and complicated piece of legalese and then was told the local police where we live had been told to make a random bail check as he was obviously considering breaking the conditions. To do a check the police would have to search our house looking for under 18 year olds which made me think of the child catcher in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang!! And of course it hasn't happened. I really don't know how these 'professionals' can act like this. It's akin to bullying!
Another update; school headteacher responded in the way I'd expected and it will be addressed at the start of term in their safeguarding training with talk of having a conversation with the safeguarding lead about confidentiality and professionalism for lunchtime supervisors.
I am satisfied with the response and I know she will action the things mentioned in her email.
On reflection of the situation I feel pleased to have been able to in a small way advocate for the children in these women's care. I know it has been said before on here that we almost feel untrustworthy around other children and being able to do this feels like I've come through that fully.
Thank you all for your advice xxx
I am satisfied with the response and I know she will action the things mentioned in her email.
On reflection of the situation I feel pleased to have been able to in a small way advocate for the children in these women's care. I know it has been said before on here that we almost feel untrustworthy around other children and being able to do this feels like I've come through that fully.
Thank you all for your advice xxx
Well done you! Mission accomplished (you should feel proud of yourself). I thought it was strange how the first response seemed a little flippant, the education sector are usually hot on safeguarding.
You spoke on all our behalf. X Thankyou.......
You spoke on all our behalf. X Thankyou.......
Well done you should definitely feel proud of what you've done and thank goodness the Headteacher has responded to you in a positive manner.
The response from the pre school was flippant to say the least-I know you don't want to pursue it with them but it would be interesting to see what their latest Ofsted report says about safeguarding training and confidentiality.
The response from the pre school was flippant to say the least-I know you don't want to pursue it with them but it would be interesting to see what their latest Ofsted report says about safeguarding training and confidentiality.