Child In Need meeting
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Any advice please on how to handle a child in need conference. We have been assessed by a social worker assessment service and she is drafting the plan.
I believe this meeting is to hand over to our actual social worker to manage the plan.
Partner is on supervised contact as per bail conditions with his 4 year old son with me and his two teenage step children (my children from prev marriage). He is currently living elsewhere but we are working on how we might stay together longer term. He is taking lots of action with SAA, LFF and therapist.
I have asked for a list of attendees and their roles.
I am not clear if the plan will be written prior to the meeting or no, but will be asking for a copy before the meeting.
I feel lucky for my son as he is 18 in Dec so I hope he will come off the plan as soon as he is 18 and can sit his A-Levels in peace.
I feel that SS are ticking boxes, making sure I understand the true horror of what he has done (IIOC download and distribution as they went up to dropbox) rather than any true help to my children and our family.
SW just kept saying he is doing all the right things but he would be doing them anyway if he knew there was more to find on his devices hoping that they don't find anything ie saying she had no way to believe he is actually doing the right things with a good motive so they will presume the motive isn't good!
I believe this meeting is to hand over to our actual social worker to manage the plan.
Partner is on supervised contact as per bail conditions with his 4 year old son with me and his two teenage step children (my children from prev marriage). He is currently living elsewhere but we are working on how we might stay together longer term. He is taking lots of action with SAA, LFF and therapist.
I have asked for a list of attendees and their roles.
I am not clear if the plan will be written prior to the meeting or no, but will be asking for a copy before the meeting.
I feel lucky for my son as he is 18 in Dec so I hope he will come off the plan as soon as he is 18 and can sit his A-Levels in peace.
I feel that SS are ticking boxes, making sure I understand the true horror of what he has done (IIOC download and distribution as they went up to dropbox) rather than any true help to my children and our family.
SW just kept saying he is doing all the right things but he would be doing them anyway if he knew there was more to find on his devices hoping that they don't find anything ie saying she had no way to believe he is actually doing the right things with a good motive so they will presume the motive isn't good!
Can't remember everything you said sorry but a few pointers:
The people in attendance are anyone you want to be there because it's child in need level and this is voluntary, so you should ask the social worker who they have invited and you actually get a final say in who comes. If you exclude someone the sw thinks is critical in their safeguarding role there might need to be some negotiation
They are likely to have invited school/nursery safeguarding leads for all your children
Health visitor
And any other professional involvement so that could include representatives from the agencies your oh is working with
The social worker will have drafted a plan but the purpose of the meeting is to discuss the plans contents and agree it so nothing is finalized until afterwards.
You should get a copy of the plan within a week at the most of the meeting. Don't be afraid to push if it doesn't appear (quite common that sw's get behind in paperwork as they have to write it then get it signed off by management- but you can't be expected to complete actions if you haven't had sight of them so make sure you get it in writing)
- you can decline any child in need involvement but the social worker may then request a strategy meeting if she things your non engagement means the children become at higher risk which could lead to a child protection conference
- your almost 18 year old can actually decline now if they want to because at that age and it being child in need they cannot be made to do it. That goes for anyone 16+. Be aware though that if the SW thinks it escalates the risk they could again requested a strategy meeting (v unlikely to lead anywhere at that age, but potentially a bit of hassle)
The people in attendance are anyone you want to be there because it's child in need level and this is voluntary, so you should ask the social worker who they have invited and you actually get a final say in who comes. If you exclude someone the sw thinks is critical in their safeguarding role there might need to be some negotiation
They are likely to have invited school/nursery safeguarding leads for all your children
Health visitor
And any other professional involvement so that could include representatives from the agencies your oh is working with
The social worker will have drafted a plan but the purpose of the meeting is to discuss the plans contents and agree it so nothing is finalized until afterwards.
You should get a copy of the plan within a week at the most of the meeting. Don't be afraid to push if it doesn't appear (quite common that sw's get behind in paperwork as they have to write it then get it signed off by management- but you can't be expected to complete actions if you haven't had sight of them so make sure you get it in writing)
- you can decline any child in need involvement but the social worker may then request a strategy meeting if she things your non engagement means the children become at higher risk which could lead to a child protection conference
- your almost 18 year old can actually decline now if they want to because at that age and it being child in need they cannot be made to do it. That goes for anyone 16+. Be aware though that if the SW thinks it escalates the risk they could again requested a strategy meeting (v unlikely to lead anywhere at that age, but potentially a bit of hassle)
Thank you so much, I will look into this 16+ business as my 15 yo is also 16 in Jan and I feel has danger of more harm by SS than help with GSCEs coming up for her.
They also have so little interaction with their step father, we live in the same house but they are teenagers and have their own lives with their friends or spend a lot of time in their rooms doing homework & chilling; and I am financially independent from my husband so I parent these 2 children 99.5% of the time. He gives them the odd lift somewhere which we can easily stop as it's so infrequent. I know from the outside this might be odd but this is the way we lived our lives as my husband has his own 2 children to parent (though they are both pretty much over 18 now) and then we share our one together.
They also have so little interaction with their step father, we live in the same house but they are teenagers and have their own lives with their friends or spend a lot of time in their rooms doing homework & chilling; and I am financially independent from my husband so I parent these 2 children 99.5% of the time. He gives them the odd lift somewhere which we can easily stop as it's so infrequent. I know from the outside this might be odd but this is the way we lived our lives as my husband has his own 2 children to parent (though they are both pretty much over 18 now) and then we share our one together.
sorry follow up - what is the chance of the schools turning up during the school holidays? the little one is just starting reception so that feels doubtful, the 15 year old goes to a massive school with 300 kids in a year so also feels doubtful! 17 year old goes to a private school so I couldn't predict that either way! both schools will have reported no issues with the teenagers just that the 15 year has had lots of detentions for rolling up her school skirt!
Schools do sometimes turn up in the holidays - more chance of larger urban schools doing so than smaller rural ones in my experience
The guidelines usually say the meetings should take place monthly so sw will hesitate to cancel even if poor attendance because they would struggle to get a delay agreed by management.
However the meeting does need to be purposeful and delays can be agreed in exceptional circumstances. Another way of looking at it though if it's just you and the sw you have a v strong voice in shaping the plan
In terms of 16+ declining services it's not a hard and fast rule but if they agree it is not significant harm and the young person themselves say they do not want services and will not work with/see a sw they can't really do much about it. It would need to clearly come from the young person and not be an agenda pushed by you/your oh
I don't know what their dads involvement is but the sw should technically be including him as well (unless good reason not to)
The guidelines usually say the meetings should take place monthly so sw will hesitate to cancel even if poor attendance because they would struggle to get a delay agreed by management.
However the meeting does need to be purposeful and delays can be agreed in exceptional circumstances. Another way of looking at it though if it's just you and the sw you have a v strong voice in shaping the plan
In terms of 16+ declining services it's not a hard and fast rule but if they agree it is not significant harm and the young person themselves say they do not want services and will not work with/see a sw they can't really do much about it. It would need to clearly come from the young person and not be an agenda pushed by you/your oh
I don't know what their dads involvement is but the sw should technically be including him as well (unless good reason not to)
Thank you for all of this.... I will see what they come up with re the safety plan as the current SW in this first instance. I was a bit confused as the SW didn't really talk much about the day to day aspects of what I have seen in previous plans shared on this group and was much more focussed on the work we have to do ie some pants work with 4 years old and education of us as parents.
The meeting is the tuesday after the bank holiday and she is away this week so I guess I will find out more next week when she is back and starts her prep for the meeting.
The meeting is the tuesday after the bank holiday and she is away this week so I guess I will find out more next week when she is back and starts her prep for the meeting.
We was on children (child) in need plan for two years. Our children are younger. We had a monthly home visit and monthly cin plan teams meeting. Social worker on home visits then we had social worker health visitor and nursery on teams. In school holidays nursery wasn't on it. This would of changed to primary school if it hadn't been closed. At one point we also had a family worker as I did a ten week safe guarding course with them so she was on meetings too then towards closure we had probation and visor on the last 4/5 meetings. At the very start one social worker just explained to everyone what we was on it for and then after that it was literally any updates about the children and what me and my husband was doing course wise. eventually any updates on the case before everyone agreed to close it
Scaredmumof3 there will in a way be 2 (even 3) plans
The first plan is a safety plan - this is about your day to day management of everything
Then there is the child in need plan. This is about the goals for you as a family and how you will get there. The safety plan could be an aspect of this eg that you will follow the safety plan as part of child in need planning
But there will be other goals such as you becoming more educated about the offences in order to protect the children etc, doing protective work with the children themselves eg PANTS and who will carry this out. It should be a smart plan with timescales and focused on the child's needs..there should be work for your oh to do as well
Then there is contingency planning - who can you/SS go to if something goes wrong, such as who in the family can help you if you get ill, where could the kids stay if you had to go to hospital etc (or if you were deemed unable to protect the kids)
Visits to the children under CIN planning can't be more than 20 working days apart, these are usually at home but sws often also want to see the children at school alone to ensure the children are talking freely and without your influence
Meetings usually take place monthly under CIN planning but could be up to 6 weeks apart - every LA has a policy on this and there will be slight differences.
It doesn't sound like a child protection conference is being held here. That's a different type of meeting where significant harm / risk of significant harm is suspected and a decision needs to be made about whether a child protection plan should be in place.
The first plan is a safety plan - this is about your day to day management of everything
Then there is the child in need plan. This is about the goals for you as a family and how you will get there. The safety plan could be an aspect of this eg that you will follow the safety plan as part of child in need planning
But there will be other goals such as you becoming more educated about the offences in order to protect the children etc, doing protective work with the children themselves eg PANTS and who will carry this out. It should be a smart plan with timescales and focused on the child's needs..there should be work for your oh to do as well
Then there is contingency planning - who can you/SS go to if something goes wrong, such as who in the family can help you if you get ill, where could the kids stay if you had to go to hospital etc (or if you were deemed unable to protect the kids)
Visits to the children under CIN planning can't be more than 20 working days apart, these are usually at home but sws often also want to see the children at school alone to ensure the children are talking freely and without your influence
Meetings usually take place monthly under CIN planning but could be up to 6 weeks apart - every LA has a policy on this and there will be slight differences.
It doesn't sound like a child protection conference is being held here. That's a different type of meeting where significant harm / risk of significant harm is suspected and a decision needs to be made about whether a child protection plan should be in place.
Thank you! that makes more sense now..... got it between the different plans.
and in the CIN, with the SMART objectives would this also start to cover what needs to be completed to allow for him to have unsubervised access? ie once you have all done x,y,z and we will review and decide if you have done enough or assess the risk at this point?
I know this is a very very long process but some people seem to get to unsupervised access quicker than others. We are early stages were devices have not been searched so we do not know what the charges will eventually be.
I know this is a long way off as nothing is going to change until they know the charges, as OH is in the place he will only likely get charged for downloading images yet charges currently stand at downloading and distribution, and SW are assuuming and working on the basis that the charges will / could get worse.
and in the CIN, with the SMART objectives would this also start to cover what needs to be completed to allow for him to have unsubervised access? ie once you have all done x,y,z and we will review and decide if you have done enough or assess the risk at this point?
I know this is a very very long process but some people seem to get to unsupervised access quicker than others. We are early stages were devices have not been searched so we do not know what the charges will eventually be.
I know this is a long way off as nothing is going to change until they know the charges, as OH is in the place he will only likely get charged for downloading images yet charges currently stand at downloading and distribution, and SW are assuuming and working on the basis that the charges will / could get worse.
Yes that's right
So you could say to the SW your ultimate goal is you want your children to have safe unsupervised access to their father
You then discuss what needs to happen to make this possible and what could prevent it happening, and certain actions will come out of this.
For example it might be the SW says well we don't know if it's safe so a specialist risk assessment is needed and we won't agree unsupervised until an expert tells us it's ok. The expert assessment (or SW assessment if they don't go down an expert route) might suggest your OH does certain courses to help enable him keep himself and the children safe and they might suggest similar for you.
They might also want tweaks to the safety plan
They might also say that they aren't convinced the children know how to keep themselves safe/know who to report to if something unsafe happens so work might need to happen with them to make them more confident in that eg the PANTs work
You also need to ensure the SW is clear on what they think the risks are so you are working towards the same goals
For example are they worried that your oh will sexually abuse the children and if so what type of sexual abuse are they concerned about - are they worried he might touch them inappropriately or are they worried he might take photos of them and share them?
Alternatively are they not worried about sexual abuse but rather worried that the children could see inappropriate materials?
So you could say to the SW your ultimate goal is you want your children to have safe unsupervised access to their father
You then discuss what needs to happen to make this possible and what could prevent it happening, and certain actions will come out of this.
For example it might be the SW says well we don't know if it's safe so a specialist risk assessment is needed and we won't agree unsupervised until an expert tells us it's ok. The expert assessment (or SW assessment if they don't go down an expert route) might suggest your OH does certain courses to help enable him keep himself and the children safe and they might suggest similar for you.
They might also want tweaks to the safety plan
They might also say that they aren't convinced the children know how to keep themselves safe/know who to report to if something unsafe happens so work might need to happen with them to make them more confident in that eg the PANTs work
You also need to ensure the SW is clear on what they think the risks are so you are working towards the same goals
For example are they worried that your oh will sexually abuse the children and if so what type of sexual abuse are they concerned about - are they worried he might touch them inappropriately or are they worried he might take photos of them and share them?
Alternatively are they not worried about sexual abuse but rather worried that the children could see inappropriate materials?
Just an update:
The CIN meeting was both horrible and useless. It was to go through the report that just said we were all at risk! I don't feel it really was personal to us as a family just box ticking. On the plus side my husband had to disclose more to me through the process about previous mental health issues and illness. The meeting was horrible when you have 3 other people there from your childrens schools - 2 of which you see day to day. My teenagers were told after they needed to have training on "healthy relationships" and I also needed training. I asked how would that be delivered and was told my a social worker.
So we now have a new social worker as that one was just an assessment service basically to pull up all the dirt. She checked all my husbands medical records which is how all the health issues were identified.
New one is due on Friday for a 4 week visit though I do not hold up much hope as so far her emails have been sent to my ex husband in error, sent to my husband but addressed to ex, sent to me but addressed to my 15 year old daughter with an incorrect spellling.
The safety plan is between us and the police (their words yet the police don't care about anything other than bail) and this is the plan for CIN, yet it has no specific actions all very generic and high level.
Feels like a holding pattern...... Just wanted to post for others starting this process as I read posts to get educated but then somtimes frustrated when they don't have an outcome!
The CIN meeting was both horrible and useless. It was to go through the report that just said we were all at risk! I don't feel it really was personal to us as a family just box ticking. On the plus side my husband had to disclose more to me through the process about previous mental health issues and illness. The meeting was horrible when you have 3 other people there from your childrens schools - 2 of which you see day to day. My teenagers were told after they needed to have training on "healthy relationships" and I also needed training. I asked how would that be delivered and was told my a social worker.
So we now have a new social worker as that one was just an assessment service basically to pull up all the dirt. She checked all my husbands medical records which is how all the health issues were identified.
New one is due on Friday for a 4 week visit though I do not hold up much hope as so far her emails have been sent to my ex husband in error, sent to my husband but addressed to ex, sent to me but addressed to my 15 year old daughter with an incorrect spellling.
The safety plan is between us and the police (their words yet the police don't care about anything other than bail) and this is the plan for CIN, yet it has no specific actions all very generic and high level.
Feels like a holding pattern...... Just wanted to post for others starting this process as I read posts to get educated but then somtimes frustrated when they don't have an outcome!