Keeping children safe overnight
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Just wondering how you might respond to the stated assumption that you can't keep your children safe overnight because you'll be asleep?
This was said about us without any chance to discuss it and of course we want to respond. We have some ideas but would appreciate any we haven't thought of.
Many thanks - I appreciate any ideas/suggestions if you've had to think about this yourselves.
This was said about us without any chance to discuss it and of course we want to respond. We have some ideas but would appreciate any we haven't thought of.
Many thanks - I appreciate any ideas/suggestions if you've had to think about this yourselves.
We were told by SS that the grandchildren would need to sleep in the same room as myself or my husband to keep them safe.
Same here - my husband is allowed to stay in the house at night, but I have to sleep in the same room as our children (they are 3 years and 21 months old).
Thank you both!
That is the top on our list of ideas , in fact it's the only idea at the moment regarding nightime although our son has also suggested a CCTV camera outside the bedrooms but this seems a bit OTT. We were going to suggest a small bolt on the inside of the bedroom door too but is that also a bit OTT?
Were you both successful in your person being allowed to stay overnight with this restriction? Can I ask at what stage in proceedings this was set up as another thing implied is that until devices have been checked and they know for sure what he's done it will be impossible to allow him to stay overnight even with a safety plan? He's just had bail dropped and is now RUI.
That is the top on our list of ideas , in fact it's the only idea at the moment regarding nightime although our son has also suggested a CCTV camera outside the bedrooms but this seems a bit OTT. We were going to suggest a small bolt on the inside of the bedroom door too but is that also a bit OTT?
Were you both successful in your person being allowed to stay overnight with this restriction? Can I ask at what stage in proceedings this was set up as another thing implied is that until devices have been checked and they know for sure what he's done it will be impossible to allow him to stay overnight even with a safety plan? He's just had bail dropped and is now RUI.
Rainyday52, this safety plan was set up when my husband was released under investigation.
We haven't got the results from his devices yet.
We were very lucky, there was no Section 47 enquiry, no CIN or CPC.
Social Services have closed the case for now, but I'm pretty sure they will get involved again in the near future, especially since I'm pregnant again.
I think it all comes down to luck, what your social workers personal opinion is, what their manager is like, how overworked social services are in your area.
We haven't had to install any CCTV or bolts. I agree that is over the top and would create a bad atmosphere in the house.
We haven't got the results from his devices yet.
We were very lucky, there was no Section 47 enquiry, no CIN or CPC.
Social Services have closed the case for now, but I'm pretty sure they will get involved again in the near future, especially since I'm pregnant again.
I think it all comes down to luck, what your social workers personal opinion is, what their manager is like, how overworked social services are in your area.
We haven't had to install any CCTV or bolts. I agree that is over the top and would create a bad atmosphere in the house.
Definitely not bolts - they will worry in case of a fire that your child can't get out
Sleeping in separate rooms is an idea, another idea is a baby alarm situated just outside the door that senses movement (this is what I intend to suggest). If your child is young enough you can also have a baby monitor in the room
I'd also say a lot of this depends on what the offences are - if internet only, then its ok to challenge the sw's potential preconception that that increases the likelihood of a contact offence and is something I intend to argue about when our time comes.
Something that id say is a definite is if your child comes into bed with you (some young children do after all) then your person should go to a spare room/the sofa.
What is it your sw thinks might happen at night? Make sure they write down exactly what they think might happen and what safety planning would therefore be proportionate. You might find they suddenly have some different ideas - for example is there actually evidence to suggest that because your person watched illegal content some time ago that they are at risk of entering your child's bedroom at night and molesting them? (This might not be your specific situation but I'm just putting it out there)
Sleeping in separate rooms is an idea, another idea is a baby alarm situated just outside the door that senses movement (this is what I intend to suggest). If your child is young enough you can also have a baby monitor in the room
I'd also say a lot of this depends on what the offences are - if internet only, then its ok to challenge the sw's potential preconception that that increases the likelihood of a contact offence and is something I intend to argue about when our time comes.
Something that id say is a definite is if your child comes into bed with you (some young children do after all) then your person should go to a spare room/the sofa.
What is it your sw thinks might happen at night? Make sure they write down exactly what they think might happen and what safety planning would therefore be proportionate. You might find they suddenly have some different ideas - for example is there actually evidence to suggest that because your person watched illegal content some time ago that they are at risk of entering your child's bedroom at night and molesting them? (This might not be your specific situation but I'm just putting it out there)
Please please be very careful with this.
My daughter is now under an SGO with her aunt. This was the first thing childrens services said to us that my partner was not allowed in the house when i was asleep.
I suggested all of the things mentioned, cameras, locks the lot. None of it was enough. The chair of the CP meeting felt the need to point out that harm doesnt just happen in the day and just like that my partner wasnt allowed any contact with my daughter ( shes 12 not his biological child) or allowed in the house.
And now shes no longer here. I hope this is a more positive outcome for you. For refence my partner is RUI for online communication with a minor overseas during a period of seperation between me and him
My daughter is now under an SGO with her aunt. This was the first thing childrens services said to us that my partner was not allowed in the house when i was asleep.
I suggested all of the things mentioned, cameras, locks the lot. None of it was enough. The chair of the CP meeting felt the need to point out that harm doesnt just happen in the day and just like that my partner wasnt allowed any contact with my daughter ( shes 12 not his biological child) or allowed in the house.
And now shes no longer here. I hope this is a more positive outcome for you. For refence my partner is RUI for online communication with a minor overseas during a period of seperation between me and him
My person is my son. He moved in with myself and my husband following his arrest and has been with us ever since. Overnight stays were allowed after about 9 months. Although the case is now closed to SS, his SHPO states no unsupervised contact with under 18 year olds unless agreed with SS and the parents. SS won't agree to unsupervised contact but have agreed to overnight stays for the children as long as myself or my husband sleep in the bedroom with them. We have never received anything in writing from SS following the SHPO restrictions being placed on him but follow what they have said verbally as we do not want to do anything to jeopodise what is currently in place.
Sunstax I'm so sorry, that is an extreme outcome and although I have limited information it feels like a hugely unjustified action and I hope you are ok. Are yoy taking action to try to return her home?
It's shocking and disappointing to me so see such inconsistency between outcomes
I know I've been the case holding social worker for a family where the father was allowed to stay at the gone despite having a contact offence with a child (abbattemot to meet after online communication). There are no requirements for anyone to sleep in the same room as their child/ren. The requirement focuses on where and when the father uses devices etc instead and how this is safeguarding
There are things we can do to support getting the desired outcome, including our people doing all the courses and rehabilitative activity open to them and demonstrating their learning, and us doing the same. Reading the academic literature to help us understand the likelihood of future risks and offending. Doing work with our children such as PANTS. Engaging our support network such as family and friends but also our professional network such as health visitors, school, mental health team etc. Downloading internet monitoring equipment/accountability apps and ensuring inappropriate content is blocked through the internet provider. However sometimes, sadly, professionals may be highly biased and judgemental about such offences and take us to pre proceedings or court proceedings. In those circumstances it's essential to gain good legal representatio and ensure we are absolutely versed in the process that's to follow - the nspcc website is very useful.
It's shocking and disappointing to me so see such inconsistency between outcomes
I know I've been the case holding social worker for a family where the father was allowed to stay at the gone despite having a contact offence with a child (abbattemot to meet after online communication). There are no requirements for anyone to sleep in the same room as their child/ren. The requirement focuses on where and when the father uses devices etc instead and how this is safeguarding
There are things we can do to support getting the desired outcome, including our people doing all the courses and rehabilitative activity open to them and demonstrating their learning, and us doing the same. Reading the academic literature to help us understand the likelihood of future risks and offending. Doing work with our children such as PANTS. Engaging our support network such as family and friends but also our professional network such as health visitors, school, mental health team etc. Downloading internet monitoring equipment/accountability apps and ensuring inappropriate content is blocked through the internet provider. However sometimes, sadly, professionals may be highly biased and judgemental about such offences and take us to pre proceedings or court proceedings. In those circumstances it's essential to gain good legal representatio and ensure we are absolutely versed in the process that's to follow - the nspcc website is very useful.
Hi
Thank you for your kind words.
No, I will not be trying to fight for her as sad as this sounds. I am in wales and her aunt is in Manchester. So it means a new school for her etc
We originally lived in manchester so she has friends there, knows the area etc
It will cause her more harm than good to bring her back and fourth. What I will do is ensure I have as much contact as possible with her. Thankfully she is an incredibly mature 12 year old and knows this isn't the outcome I wanted for us.
I have gone from having a full loving family home to now just me existing in the house alone as my partner moved out as requested by social services and is now in temporary accommodation as they made him homeless. I will not allow him home because I don't want anyone to believe that I picked him over her because I 100% did not. And now my daughter is also gone.
In terms of my plans, I really don't know. I intend to move out of our 3 bed family home as it holds too many difficult happy memories as us as a family. I'll probably get a really cheap small flat in wales (approx £400 a month vs £1000 in Manchester) get my driving sorted so I can visit daughter even more and ensure that we have good quality time together.
Thank you for your kind words.
No, I will not be trying to fight for her as sad as this sounds. I am in wales and her aunt is in Manchester. So it means a new school for her etc
We originally lived in manchester so she has friends there, knows the area etc
It will cause her more harm than good to bring her back and fourth. What I will do is ensure I have as much contact as possible with her. Thankfully she is an incredibly mature 12 year old and knows this isn't the outcome I wanted for us.
I have gone from having a full loving family home to now just me existing in the house alone as my partner moved out as requested by social services and is now in temporary accommodation as they made him homeless. I will not allow him home because I don't want anyone to believe that I picked him over her because I 100% did not. And now my daughter is also gone.
In terms of my plans, I really don't know. I intend to move out of our 3 bed family home as it holds too many difficult happy memories as us as a family. I'll probably get a really cheap small flat in wales (approx £400 a month vs £1000 in Manchester) get my driving sorted so I can visit daughter even more and ensure that we have good quality time together.
To add,
I've done safeguarding courses off my own back. It wasn't enough for them to be satisfied.
I failed a protective parenting assessment done by an 'independent social worker' ( I'm not sure how independent she actually was as she was on first name terms with all the Welsh welfare staff and had a Welsh County Council email address??) The reason I failed is because they think I have skewed views because of my past.. o started dating my daughters dad (not my current partner) at 15 and he was 22.
I've done safeguarding courses off my own back. It wasn't enough for them to be satisfied.
I failed a protective parenting assessment done by an 'independent social worker' ( I'm not sure how independent she actually was as she was on first name terms with all the Welsh welfare staff and had a Welsh County Council email address??) The reason I failed is because they think I have skewed views because of my past.. o started dating my daughters dad (not my current partner) at 15 and he was 22.
I'm so sorry Sunstax. There would, in my opinion, be many ways for you to challenge this, but I also hugely respect you wanting what's best for your daughter.
Wales SS, from my experience, is quite backwards in its attitude towards these offences and the law is different there too. You might get a more favourable contact outcome the other side of the border (although I will admit I don't know very much about Manchester and I understand the affordability issues - I guess if it doesn't seem to be going well in Wales it might be worth considering)
I'm also terribly sorry they used your past against you to this extent. Decisions you made as a child should not be viewed the same as decisions you make as an adult (such double standards in our society - just look at the age of the parents in the UKs biggest family) Sending you a great deal of love. At some point I'm sure your situation will get better
Wales SS, from my experience, is quite backwards in its attitude towards these offences and the law is different there too. You might get a more favourable contact outcome the other side of the border (although I will admit I don't know very much about Manchester and I understand the affordability issues - I guess if it doesn't seem to be going well in Wales it might be worth considering)
I'm also terribly sorry they used your past against you to this extent. Decisions you made as a child should not be viewed the same as decisions you make as an adult (such double standards in our society - just look at the age of the parents in the UKs biggest family) Sending you a great deal of love. At some point I'm sure your situation will get better
Sunstax, it's a disgrace how social services have treated you, I am really angry on your behalf.
I wish you and your daughter all the best for the future xx
I wish you and your daughter all the best for the future xx
Inthemoment - thank you for your reply.
Our son is definitely in a position to challenge this re the nature of his offences (no charges yet but he says he's guilty so no uncertainty there)
The idea of asking for reasons why with evidence is an excellent one, especially as we can say that there are many precedents for overnights being allowed in similar situations to our son's.As it's our son we don't have to worry about the children visiting in the night/early morning as he would be in his own room and would happily put the catch down on the door overnight on his side so there would be no danger of anyone coming in to him.
Many thanks again x
Our son is definitely in a position to challenge this re the nature of his offences (no charges yet but he says he's guilty so no uncertainty there)
The idea of asking for reasons why with evidence is an excellent one, especially as we can say that there are many precedents for overnights being allowed in similar situations to our son's.As it's our son we don't have to worry about the children visiting in the night/early morning as he would be in his own room and would happily put the catch down on the door overnight on his side so there would be no danger of anyone coming in to him.
Many thanks again x
Sunstax - thank you for responding and what a dreadful situation to be in. Firstly I so hope that things work out for you and I think you're being very wise in the decisions you've made in such painful circumstances. Not easy I'm sure.
Your experience has certainly made me think about taking great care in this, encouraging our son to choose his battles wisely rather than steaming ahead! Thank you again x
Your experience has certainly made me think about taking great care in this, encouraging our son to choose his battles wisely rather than steaming ahead! Thank you again x
Ocean - your experience is similar to ours and we would be very happy if just overnights were allowed and soldier on with supervision! It certainly seems that people get such different outcomes with this and although we totally understand ss need to keep children safe I'm not sure that their decisions are always in the best interests of children's emotional health and feelings of security although I know that it's the one offending who triggered this to start with......and round and round I go in my thought processes until I'm dizzy! x