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Being labelled

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Seaside

Member since
July 2022

561 posts

Posted Wed January 31, 2024 2:35pmReport post

Every time my son has a meeting with either his PO or the visor they tell him " you have to realise you are a sex offender"- he has ( politely) reminded them that he is very aware of this and has taken positive steps towards addressing his behaviour and moving forward- LFF and Stopso paid for by himself but this still doesn't seem to make any difference to them.

Surely their job is to support him in moving forward and not to keep labelling him and defining him??

I feel strongly that they are bringing their own personal opinions and not acting professionally but if he raises any questions with them he is told that he doesn't have any right to ask them.

InTatters

Member since
June 2022

175 posts

Posted Wed January 31, 2024 3:31pmReport post

Not a particularly productive response I know, but surely it's reasonable to expect the authorities to recognise the difference between people who 'have been' offenders in the past, and those who currently 'are'... It feels cruel unfair to label someone on that basis (rather than an 'ex-offender') when every passing day puts further distance between the time they offended and the person they are today.


And as for being discouraged from asking questions.... Why on earth would they not want someone to demonstrate engagement and seeking to understand the situation they are in?! Unfathomable...

Edited Wed January 31, 2024 3:33pm

rainyday52

Member since
April 2023

448 posts

Posted Wed January 31, 2024 3:40pmReport post

I agree totally - it's a bit like we're told not to label a child when they misbehave and rather than say 'You're naughty' we should say 'that was a naughty thing that you did.' So saying 'you were guilty of a sexual offence' rather than 'you are a sex offender' removes the label and also the danger of adopting the label as part of the person's identity which brings hopelessness rather than hope for a better future.

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

561 posts

Posted Wed January 31, 2024 3:46pmReport post

Intatters yes I can see where you're coming from but surely there should be some acknowledgement for the fact that the offence was 3 years ago and nothing has happened since then?

As for asking questions he is merely trying to establish the types of jobs he can apply for and what their risk assessments are but he is being blocked all the time.

He recently applied for a job which doesn't involve any face to face contact and wasn't asked to make a disclosure but he has been told that he should disclose for any job he applies for despite not being legally required too unless asked and that the PO and visor would visit the employer to disclose as well - this effectively prevents him from applying for anything.

Rainyday my point exactly I worked for many years at a high level in education and my philosophy was always to look at the individual and not just the behaviour

Edited Wed January 31, 2024 3:59pm

sn101010

Member since
January 2024

24 posts

Posted Wed January 31, 2024 4:31pmReport post

I think they do this to wind them up.. xx

Mandymoo

Member since
September 2021

295 posts

Posted Wed January 31, 2024 11:12pmReport post

Seaside - my son has the same type of PO. Seems to get pleasure out of making things has difficult as he can. X

Smile through tears

Member since
September 2021

2554 posts

Posted Thu February 1, 2024 4:14amReport post

Well, I just feel this is appalling.

i know there are men that'll sadly repeat their crime which is a thing society wants to avoid at all costs BUT for goodness sake give them a chance! If they aren't confidently pushed forward in their lives with positivity, support and encouragement I could easily see the behaviour rear its ugly head again.

Can you imagine if it happened with other crimes, there would be a human rights issue. These men fully understand what they have done, they have served or serving their 'time/punishment' / By all account monitor but not continue to beat them with the 'sex offender' stick/label.

Edited Thu February 1, 2024 7:35am

helpneeded1

Member since
August 2021

27 posts

Posted Thu February 1, 2024 7:33amReport post

I had a similar comment made to me by a social worker. One day she was asking me if he he was likely to return home, being really positive about a future together and then the next time she was the complete opposite and told me to remember that he is a sex offender. I couldn't believe she actually said it! X

Smile through tears

Member since
September 2021

2554 posts

Posted Thu February 1, 2024 7:36amReport post

Did she think you'd forgot? Ridiculous......

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

561 posts

Posted Thu February 1, 2024 2:41pmReport post

Thank you for your replies as Smile says for any other offence there would be human rights issues involved but when my son referred to the right to be treated with respect in the UNCHR he was asked if he had taken it up with the UN .

There is absolutely no empathy shown whatsoever and no consideration of mental health and wellbeing- after the knock he was told by the OIC not to do anything stupid because " it creates extra paperwork for us" this is desire them knowing that he had previously made an attempt to take his own life.

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2403 posts

Posted Thu February 1, 2024 5:37pmReport post

Seaside x

Hi lovely, honestly it's so bloody infuriating, give them a chance, like they need reminding

When I had my visit last weekend talking to my son about when he is released , it made me think about us picking him up, first stop a Mcds then home, he wont be allowed home he will have to go to an AP for however long they decide, sign on the register or else breech his SOR , the list goes on, how on earth do they rebuild, but the one thing that keeps us all sane, strong, is we are by there side every step of the way, xx

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

561 posts

Posted Sat February 3, 2024 11:29amReport post

Well I am absolutely blinking fuming now ????son had a meeting yesterday with his PO and visor and mentioned his concerns about making disclosures and the possibility of repercussions stating that he had been subjected to extreme mental and physical bullying at school which also resulted in our house being attacked and he is worried that this could happen again- he was then told that he should forget about the bullying as it was in the past and " they were children and they'll have moved on so why can't you?"- to put this in context the people involved were 16 at the time and the verbal abuse continued up until just before we moved house 2 years ago .... he was also told that he is living in the past and using the bullying as an excuse for his offence even though it was cited as a mitigating factor in court.

In the light of the current trial of the 2 teenagers who murdered Brianna Ghey this shows an absolute lack of empathy or understanding about the seriousness of bullying and the impact it has.

We are now putting in a formal complaint because we will not take this lying down.

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2403 posts

Posted Sat February 3, 2024 11:47amReport post

I have no words unbelievable

I am so glad you are putting in a complaint what they think because of the offences they just have to accept it, its disgusting behaviour by people who are meant to be supporting! Xx

Distressed and pregnant

Member since
November 2020

1001 posts

Posted Sat February 3, 2024 11:51amReport post

Seaside,

I'm so very sorry that you and your son are going through this. Something that my person said to me the other day regarding jobs may be useful for your son and others. He said that if he had realised how difficult the job situation would be then he would have retrained whilst under probation and started his own business.

If your son drives maybe working self employed as a delivery driver or starting a window cleaning business might be a good option if he doesn't want to learn a new trade right now.

In terms of what they are saying about living in the past, they do see this as a risk factor I've been told but I'm also not sure if they block opportunities to move forward in life how they expect people to move forward mentally and emotionally.
I hope that you get a proper answer to your formal complaint xxx

AnxiousGirl

Member since
December 2023

222 posts

Posted Sat February 3, 2024 1:01pmReport post

Post deleted


Edited Thu February 22, 2024 8:46am

Ocean

Member since
September 2023

772 posts

Posted Sat February 3, 2024 1:55pmReport post

Distressed, the idea of setting up a business is a great idea but my son was told by his PO that window cleaning was not a good idea for his own safety as someone could accuse him of looking through their window if there were children in the house.

To add to the options though the job centre have suggested apprenticeships as a way of retraining because they are no longer just for 16-24 year olds. My son has now applied for one apprenticeship and is keeping a look out for more.

Ocean

Member since
September 2023

772 posts

Posted Sat February 3, 2024 2:15pmReport post

Anxious Girl, I hear what you're saying but I also think that the behavioural reaction to trauma is induvidualised to each person. For some people the behaviour reaction will be anything that temporarily makes them feel better. Some people will turn to alcohol or drugs, for others gambling or porn. For some it will be food or shopping etc etc. I don't think we can compare one persons reaction to another as our brains and responses will all be individual.



I completely agree with you that counselling and therapy is needed to help each person make sense of the trauma they've been through and to help them learn new ways of managing situations so that they learn positive behavioural responses for the future.

Distressed and pregnant

Member since
November 2020

1001 posts

Posted Sat February 3, 2024 7:55pmReport post

Ocean,

my window cleaner uses a hose with a brush so no need for ladders or even to be that close to windows. There are lots who use this method, I think the comments of the PO were those of someone letting their imagination run wild to be honest xxx

Ocean

Member since
September 2023

772 posts

Posted Sat February 3, 2024 8:31pmReport post

Distressed, you're right. Now you've pointed it out I realise that my window cleaner uses a brush too and stands well away from the windows. Thank you.

Dragonmama

Member since
November 2022

251 posts

Posted Sun February 4, 2024 12:29amReport post

All of the sw's we have had in my family's case keep insisting on reminding me that my person is a sex offender, half the time I feel like just turning to them looking as surprised as possible and saying " really?! I had no idea!!", then rolling my eyes. However I know that will just end badly so I just say "yes I am well aware thank you"

Seaside

Member since
July 2022

561 posts

Posted Wed February 7, 2024 6:51pmReport post

Well this just gets worse and worse- I asked my son to relate to me everything that was said to him at his meeting with his visor and PO last week because he has been extremely distressed and I am seriously worried about his mental health.

He told me that he was told that he was born a sex offender and would always be one and that he'd just been waiting for an opportunity- this is despite never having any previous convictions or investigations.

This is absolutely unacceptable behaviour and I am so angry I am physically shaking.

His PO has also said that he and his family ( my husband and myself) are in denial because we keep asking questions and are colluding with him- how the hell they can say this when they have never even met me I don't know.

We are making a formal complaint but my fear is that it'll be our word against theirs and they'll deny everything because obviously he wasn't able to record the conversation.

Surely there must be a code of conduct which they have to follow?

We very much feel like they are trying to break him either to react or push him towards a total breakdown.

Has anyone else experienced behaviour like this ?

Louise49

Member since
January 2021

494 posts

Posted Wed February 7, 2024 7:01pmReport post

Omg that is absolutely disgusting Seaside I'm really shocked how they are treating your son. I'm really glad you are putting in a formal complaint. Can you sit in on the meetings? Or can your son record them? Honestly I can't believe they said he was born a sex offender! Unbelievable. Basically they are there to rehabilitate your son, they are not there to belittle him and bully him, disgusting

Edited Wed February 7, 2024 7:06pm

InTatters

Member since
June 2022

175 posts

Posted Wed February 7, 2024 7:14pmReport post

I am raging on your behalf. It's very courageous of you but absolutely correct that you submit a complaint. I assume you are already, but please do keep a log of every relevant comment/correspondence. Can your son request a chaperone to attend the meetings (an independent third party) as an objective 'witness' and to ensure probity on both sides. Surely if the PO/Visor are confident in their approach then they will have no reason to object.

If you haven't already contacted them, I can recommend contacting 'Circles' and 'Safer Lives' (especially the latter). Both very experienced in this area, and the staff include lots of highly experienced ex-probation people. They will be able to advise.

It seems your son's PO and Visor are not entirely well suited to their jobs. I wonder if they take a similar line with other types of offender, and are as keen to tell violent offenders, burglars, fraudsters and dangerous drivers that they were born that way, and that their criminality was pre-destined from birth. What a bizarre, destructive and cruel way of quashing someone's self-esteem when they are trying to rebuild a brighter future. Your son is so lucky to have you as his advocate.

InTatters

Member since
June 2022

175 posts

Posted Wed February 7, 2024 7:20pmReport post

Also, unless they have intelligence otherwise, it's actually incorrect for them to talk in terms of him 'being a sex offender'. He is not currently a sex offender. He committed an offence in the past, and presumably is not intending to reoffend. The PO and Visor should be championing and encouraging that mindset, not dragging him down with a historic offence for the rest of time...

Just because someone has a past doesn't mean they don't have a future. All things pass.

hpl111

Member since
November 2022

392 posts

Posted Wed February 7, 2024 10:07pmReport post

Seaside, that's shockingly unprofessional.

I would absolutely take an advocate with me in these meetings, so that your son won't be bullied.

Smile through tears

Member since
September 2021

2554 posts

Posted Thu February 8, 2024 3:43amReport post

Morning ladies - just caught up on this thread and it made me hopping mad. If these so called professionals carry such prejudices they should NOT be in that job!

Not to sound flippant about the seriousness of it, but that's the trouble with this crime it carries SO much life changing stigma. Surely their sole aim 'should' be supporting these men to get back on track not to continue to demonise them and beat them with a stick.

Its SO wrong.

Edited Thu February 8, 2024 7:21am

Upset mum

Member since
June 2020

2403 posts

Posted Thu February 8, 2024 9:22pmReport post

My heart just breaks Seaside x

How bloody dare they say that to your son!

I know the pain you went through on this journey, as do all of us, we all were truly pleased it was non custodial, for you and your son, we were pleased to get updates to see you rebuild a new normal, how could we not be pleased for you all, then the updates on the people who are meant to help, support, advise your beautiful son of knowing there is a new normal of been able to rebuild, he will never forget, but he can learn to have a fresh stable life, he has you and his dad by his side which sums up the love and strength you both give to him, why do you do that! Because you know your son, this journey is not black or white, yes we do not condone what actions have led us here, it's not about forgetting what they have done, but to say they are born and I am not going to even say those words , the people who are assigned to be in this role need to clearly have training it's not something you are born as , sorry went of on a rant makes me so angry x

Edited Fri February 9, 2024 10:27am

InTatters

Member since
June 2022

175 posts

Posted Sat February 24, 2024 2:43pmReport post

Hi Seaside, just hoping that you are seeing some positive progress in the attitude of those who SHOULD be offering your son professional support.

I heard a phrase today that may ring true for some of us as we do our best to walk alongside our loved ones who have offended: "Failing once doesn't mean failing forever...."