Family and Friends Forum

distributing

Notifications OFF

Momof475

Member since
November 2024

16 posts

Posted Wed November 6, 2024 3:06pmReport post

Hi I'm new to this journey unfortunately, my eldest son is acused of distribution on kik.

he is admitted there is nothing on his phone and he deleted the kik app. The kik account wasn't in his name email address or phone number, think only thing is the ip address and his phone. My question is has anyone had experience where they didn't find anything on the phone and still been charged. If the police were forwarded the images or videos is that enough or do they need to find the images or videos on the device. When the police came he said he didn't send or see anything of that kind, he said he will not admit to anything.

Lonelyaround5555

Member since
August 2024

25 posts

Posted Wed November 6, 2024 6:28pmReport post

Hi my oh is in the exact same position. On bail 4months extended once. Just a long stressful waiting game. The oic told us it all depends on what is on the devices what happens. And our solicitor said the same. That they need to find evidence of the offence on the devices.



But also said they may still choose to send the evidence to cps (the images in question, ip address) which I'd imagine wouldn't warrant a charge but I don't know.



He also admitted to nothing in the interview.

Also I've seen mixed results on here about deleted images being recoverer. Because they can store in thumbnail folders for some time after deletion. I also see alot of case reports describing "inaccessible Images"

Momof475

Member since
November 2024

16 posts

Posted Wed November 6, 2024 6:44pmReport post

Yeah I have read loads of mixed reviews too. We spoke to an data recovery specialist in Canada. Supposedly he is the best in the business, cost us 250 for a half an hour consultation. He said the make and iOS version my son has works in his favour as he has done lots of excaminationts and that iPhones don't leave much behind after you delete these days. Said andriod phones is very possible to retrieve these cache and so called thumbnails. I do hope they have to find the said photos and videos on the device and hope the specialist is correct in what he is saying, and obviously a lot of luck. It's horrible that these men are going down this road it seems so easy to be caught up in it, especially with alcohol and drugs.

Ajustcopingparent

Member since
August 2024

40 posts

Posted Wed November 6, 2024 11:43pmReport post

My teenage son is under investigation and we've been told if devices come back clear that's the end of it. Currently on bail.

We have no idea what exactly they have. We think it might be snapchat because he's reported stuff on there.

Just playing the waiting game, just over 3 months now.

Lonelyaround5555

Member since
August 2024

25 posts

Posted Thu November 7, 2024 9:19pmReport post

Yeah I would agree it is pot luck on images. My oh is a new Samsung. So android so I do worry with what you have said. Can only hope.

I believe testing yourself that in a phones thumbnails folder sometimes it will show blurred or smaller versions of the deleted photos or video. As for the actual video itself Im not sure that's even possible.

Over writing of data and resets / file based encryption may play a part too



Hope for the best outcome for you

Lonelyaround5555

Member since
August 2024

25 posts

Posted Thu November 7, 2024 9:20pmReport post

Also. Does anyone know what the cache is. Would that just be related to apps or things looked at on browser?

Momof475

Member since
November 2024

16 posts

Posted Thu November 7, 2024 9:42pmReport post

when you take or save a photo to a phone it creates a smaller thumbnail version so that when you click on it the photo it loads faster. So basically for every photo on the device it has a smaller thumbnail in a separate folder somewhere on the device. On older phones and especially on laptops and computers, these rarely get deleted and can stay behind after the original is deleted.

On newer iPhones the computer scientist guy said Apple removes these fast after deleting. He said its not 100% impossible but very unlikely and that he has done testing and found none. Said andriod can still possibly find depending on factors ect.

For the cache for apps he said if you have an app installed on your phone for 6 months let's say, every message, photo, video even if deleted is within the apps cache if it's still installed on the phone. If the app is uninstalled then most likely it's gone, and if you reinstalled the app after uninstalling it, it will make it even harder to access anything before the first uninstall.

Momof475

Member since
November 2024

16 posts

Posted Thu November 7, 2024 9:46pmReport post

And to add to your last question. The computer guy said every image viewed on a browser will be in a cache too. It harder to get rid of this he said

LosingIt

Member since
September 2024

143 posts

Posted Thu November 7, 2024 9:59pmReport post

Did he say anything about whether all app caches were equally accessible. I've seen some contradictory statements about whether you can actually access the Twitter media cache for example.

Momof475

Member since
November 2024

16 posts

Posted Thu November 7, 2024 10:06pmReport post

If the app is still on the device it's possible he said. Is your situation involving twitter? And how long from deleting was the devices taken in your situation?

LosingIt

Member since
September 2024

143 posts

Posted Thu November 7, 2024 11:00pmReport post

It's not specifically twitter. But it's the only app my person used to view porn so just paranoid about what's it's cached. He doesn't send or receive pics via messages though so it won't be saved via that. Just scrolling porn.

Stressedoutlady92

Member since
August 2024

30 posts

Posted Sat November 9, 2024 2:38amReport post

Cached images is something that was found in my OH device.
Unfortunately, they are easier to retrieve than people might believe, and they did bring them up as evidence against him.
He did have a Samsung device, to confirm.

I know this likely doesn't relieve worry, but I thought I'd be honest and open so you can prepare yourself for what may to be come.
x

LosingIt

Member since
September 2024

143 posts

Posted Sat November 9, 2024 9:12amReport post

Thanks Stressedoutlady92. Do you know what they were cached from though? Internet browser? Apps like Kik, Twitter etc?

Stressedoutlady92

Member since
August 2024

30 posts

Posted Sat November 9, 2024 9:39amReport post

No problem.
Mostly Snapchat! I don't think it matters much about where from, cached files are just deleted images, which can be anything, even screenshots.

x

Momof475

Member since
November 2024

16 posts

Posted Sat November 9, 2024 2:37pmReport post

Was the Snapchat app still installed on the phone when the police took the device?

Stressedoutlady92

Member since
August 2024

30 posts

Posted Sat November 9, 2024 3:34pmReport post

No - it wasn't x

Momof475

Member since
November 2024

16 posts

Posted Sat November 9, 2024 3:46pmReport post

The thing with Snapchat is your need to use a real phone number, and a real email address, and they keep your media that was in chats on their servers unfortunately. Possibly the photos were in the phones gallery and that's how they found cache versions

LosingIt

Member since
September 2024

143 posts

Posted Sat November 9, 2024 3:47pmReport post

Thanks. I think you're right that apps don't matter much but seems to be variable by device. iPhone files have more sophisticated encryption I think. The forensic technology usually catches up though - in fact im convinced this is why investigations take so long. Leave an iPhone 15 in the evidence locker long enough and the forensic tools will be able to recover more in 18 months time.

LosingIt

Member since
September 2024

143 posts

Posted Sat November 9, 2024 3:52pmReport post

I think you're right. If you save photos and chats in the app and don't allow them to "vanish" after reading, they tend to stick around, including on the Snapchat server. I don't actually think they go to these companies directly as often as people make out though. UK police have no jurisdiction and these companies don't care enough to disclose even when they are the ones making such images so easily accessible.

Momof475

Member since
November 2024

16 posts

Posted Sat November 9, 2024 4:23pmReport post

This is what the forensic scientist said to me when I asked him, and the note I had to pay him 250 dollars. He works for the Canadian police department investigating cyber crimes.





It’s going to be short. I’ll say it outright: recovering information deleted from Apple smartphones and tablets (iPhones and iPads) is not technically possible. Even if you jailbreak it. Even in theory. Law enforcement can’t do this even if they use a $10,000 forensic kit. Apple themselves cannot do this, even if they are given the device and the passcode. If you delete a file from an Apple smartphone, it’s gone forever. If you do a factory reset, there is absolutely no way for anyone, including the FBI, to recover that information.



he said that cache is still technically possible if the app is uninstalled ect. But he has done tests on iPhones when the suspect deleted photos that day, he knows this because the phone logs all actions. So he knew photos were deleted but didn't know what they were and they weren't in the cache. He said on older phones cache could go back years.

Lonelyaround5555

Member since
August 2024

25 posts

Posted Sun November 10, 2024 12:30amReport post

Post deleted by user


Edited Tue November 12, 2024 3:06pm

LosingIt

Member since
September 2024

143 posts

Posted Sun November 10, 2024 2:47pmReport post

The cloud as focus makes sense. Given how long forensics takes, I wonder how they preserve cloud evidence because it's accessible from more than just the phone. And is stored in the cloud and not on the phone itself.