Viewing police evidence
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Does anyone happen to know how we can view the police evidence?
my person plead guilty to all charges, even though he claimed he was innocent on some. He had literately 40 minutes to go through 9 charges before his plea, (he is on remand) some of the dates would have made him 8 years old! He would not have had a phone!
his solicitor and barrister, told him that he should plead guilty because a jury would find him guilty and he would get a long time in prison, he was told he would never be able to see the evidence against him, and that's just how it is.
we now know his plea date should have adjourned, and he should have been able to see the evidence. I honestly can't believe what's happened to him. He was terrified.
any advice is appreciated
thank you
my person plead guilty to all charges, even though he claimed he was innocent on some. He had literately 40 minutes to go through 9 charges before his plea, (he is on remand) some of the dates would have made him 8 years old! He would not have had a phone!
his solicitor and barrister, told him that he should plead guilty because a jury would find him guilty and he would get a long time in prison, he was told he would never be able to see the evidence against him, and that's just how it is.
we now know his plea date should have adjourned, and he should have been able to see the evidence. I honestly can't believe what's happened to him. He was terrified.
any advice is appreciated
thank you
Can't help you with the question about being able to access the evidence from the police/CPS. Though the CPS are required to disclose to the defence any collected evidence which could undermine the prosecutions case.
But are you saying he's been charged with, and advised to pled guilty on things which would of occurred when he was 8 years old? If so surely this is below the age of criminal responsibility and his defence team should be asking for those charges to be dropped.
But are you saying he's been charged with, and advised to pled guilty on things which would of occurred when he was 8 years old? If so surely this is below the age of criminal responsibility and his defence team should be asking for those charges to be dropped.
When you plead guilty, it is to some or all of the charges.
If you plead not guilty and go to trial then some charges may be dropped during the process or you will be found guilty of some and not the others.
If you plead guilty then you can get up to a third off of your sentence depending on when you put in the plea.
All a bit of chance and risk, which is not great for these types of offences. In your persons situation though, I think the dates should have been queried by the lawyer.
If you plead not guilty and go to trial then some charges may be dropped during the process or you will be found guilty of some and not the others.
If you plead guilty then you can get up to a third off of your sentence depending on when you put in the plea.
All a bit of chance and risk, which is not great for these types of offences. In your persons situation though, I think the dates should have been queried by the lawyer.
Does he have a solicitor advising him? I would have thought they'd definitely challenge charges that obviously can't be him. Or at least ask for more time to see the evidence. You can adjourn plea hearings/enter no plea etc with legal representation.
Our solicitor read out the full CPS charge report prior to plea hearing, which I believe is exactly what gets read out at CC!- he certainly had everything in front of him.
I think the probation team also had access to the same report when we met with them. I think had we asked to have sight of it, they would have shown us.
Not sure that's helpful, but I'm sure if your OH makes a request he should be able to have sight.
Good luck xx
I think the probation team also had access to the same report when we met with them. I think had we asked to have sight of it, they would have shown us.
Not sure that's helpful, but I'm sure if your OH makes a request he should be able to have sight.
Good luck xx
I think I read somewhere that you can ask to see the evidence. They can't copy it (that would be a further crime) but you can arrange a time to view it with your solicitor either at their office or the offices of the prosecution. Not sure how you go about it but I guess you should ask your solicitor in the first instance.
My brain says that everyone should do this before entering a plea otherwise do you just rely on the accuracy (truthfullness) of the forensics report? How do you know it's not biased eg to get a conviction?
My brain says that everyone should do this before entering a plea otherwise do you just rely on the accuracy (truthfullness) of the forensics report? How do you know it's not biased eg to get a conviction?
Runawaygirl - I couldn't agree more with that!
We had 4 search terms which were absolutely not evidence of searching for IIOCs, but have been included in the report to bolster the charge. One was '7 year old boy' - no sexual reference at all, just that. We think they could have paraphrased the search because at the time his son was 7 and my OH was shopping online for school uniform.
One conversation on one day over an hour with a police decoy. OH had already deleted the app so police can't charge him for that because it wasn't retrievable on his phone.
Apparently found 9 images in his cache that he wouldn't have had access to and they can't access (!???) but they believe to be cat b. This is his one actual charge for 'making.'
They also allegedly found some extreme images but there isn't a charge for 'making' those (no charge = not illegal??), but that's gone in as supplementary evidence aswell.
Trying to build up a picture of a sexual deviant which in my opinion is flawed and shaky at best!
I'm not naive to the fact these things shouldn't have ever been found on his phone and certainly had a conversation which was truly awful, but on the flip side of that he had lots of unresolved trauma (sexual, emotional neglect and others due to his career), undiagnosed ADHD and subthreshold autism. He was at a dark time in his life which lead him down a dark and unsustainable path with problematic pornography use. Sadly this is the other side of the story that society will be quick to dismiss and judge. The CPS reports are completely biased towards gaining a conviction and the fallout is lifelong.
Crown court for sentencing 6 Jan for us. Let's pray the mitigation is taken in to account and the progress he has made on himself through counselling & rehabilitation xx
We had 4 search terms which were absolutely not evidence of searching for IIOCs, but have been included in the report to bolster the charge. One was '7 year old boy' - no sexual reference at all, just that. We think they could have paraphrased the search because at the time his son was 7 and my OH was shopping online for school uniform.
One conversation on one day over an hour with a police decoy. OH had already deleted the app so police can't charge him for that because it wasn't retrievable on his phone.
Apparently found 9 images in his cache that he wouldn't have had access to and they can't access (!???) but they believe to be cat b. This is his one actual charge for 'making.'
They also allegedly found some extreme images but there isn't a charge for 'making' those (no charge = not illegal??), but that's gone in as supplementary evidence aswell.
Trying to build up a picture of a sexual deviant which in my opinion is flawed and shaky at best!
I'm not naive to the fact these things shouldn't have ever been found on his phone and certainly had a conversation which was truly awful, but on the flip side of that he had lots of unresolved trauma (sexual, emotional neglect and others due to his career), undiagnosed ADHD and subthreshold autism. He was at a dark time in his life which lead him down a dark and unsustainable path with problematic pornography use. Sadly this is the other side of the story that society will be quick to dismiss and judge. The CPS reports are completely biased towards gaining a conviction and the fallout is lifelong.
Crown court for sentencing 6 Jan for us. Let's pray the mitigation is taken in to account and the progress he has made on himself through counselling & rehabilitation xx
Hey everyone, thank you so much for the replies,
It's honestly really appreciated! I'm just lost!
I think our first problem is we have the worst solicitor in the world, he was saying he is innocent (not of all the charges) and the solicitor knew full well they should have adjourned the plea hearing, but instead just told him to plead guilty, as a jury would find him guilty! The solicitor refused to view the evidence. Not once did they say the hearing could be adjourned so he could view the actual evidence himself. He was told he isn't allowed to see the evidence, and was talked into a guilty plea, because the solicitor basically couldn't be bothered to do his job and question the charge sheet with the CPS!
The solicitor has now blocked me from contacting them! And it's impossible for my person to phone them from prison and catch them when they are in their office.
They know as we're legal aid we will have trouble changing solicitors unless we pay and we're looking 15k/20k
I need to see their evidence, he can't be sentenced for something he hasn't done, surely? Someone trusted has to view this? I really don't trust his solicitor, it's like theyre part of the prosecution. They also full on refuse a forensic psychologist report even though his therapist and several high profile psychologists agree it's essential for his particular case. It's just been a huge battle and I'm no further forward.
I thought our CJS was fair, but my god! What an eye opener it's been.
it all seems like a crazy story! But it's true, and he was 8 years old on some charges! 8! And the solicitor did nothing! And he plead guilty! He wouldn't have had a phone then and smart phones weren't invented!
I confronted the OIC about the dates, they denied it even though it's wrote down in black and white.
it's all a bad dream and something, somewhere isn't sitting right with me. How on earth do we make sure you're only convicted and sentenced for crimes committed if the evidence is hidden?
thank you for listening, I'm going crazy I think Xxx
It's honestly really appreciated! I'm just lost!
I think our first problem is we have the worst solicitor in the world, he was saying he is innocent (not of all the charges) and the solicitor knew full well they should have adjourned the plea hearing, but instead just told him to plead guilty, as a jury would find him guilty! The solicitor refused to view the evidence. Not once did they say the hearing could be adjourned so he could view the actual evidence himself. He was told he isn't allowed to see the evidence, and was talked into a guilty plea, because the solicitor basically couldn't be bothered to do his job and question the charge sheet with the CPS!
The solicitor has now blocked me from contacting them! And it's impossible for my person to phone them from prison and catch them when they are in their office.
They know as we're legal aid we will have trouble changing solicitors unless we pay and we're looking 15k/20k
I need to see their evidence, he can't be sentenced for something he hasn't done, surely? Someone trusted has to view this? I really don't trust his solicitor, it's like theyre part of the prosecution. They also full on refuse a forensic psychologist report even though his therapist and several high profile psychologists agree it's essential for his particular case. It's just been a huge battle and I'm no further forward.
I thought our CJS was fair, but my god! What an eye opener it's been.
it all seems like a crazy story! But it's true, and he was 8 years old on some charges! 8! And the solicitor did nothing! And he plead guilty! He wouldn't have had a phone then and smart phones weren't invented!
I confronted the OIC about the dates, they denied it even though it's wrote down in black and white.
it's all a bad dream and something, somewhere isn't sitting right with me. How on earth do we make sure you're only convicted and sentenced for crimes committed if the evidence is hidden?
thank you for listening, I'm going crazy I think Xxx
Hey, Scared to Death
That sounds like a nigtmare of a situation to go through with your solictor, I can't imagine the stress that has caused you & your person. I wish you both the best in regards to your situation.
I wanted to ask if the solicitor was the same solicitor as the duty solicitor if not, were you able to get a specialised solicitor with legal aid?
I hope you don't mind me asking these questions, thankyou in advance!
That sounds like a nigtmare of a situation to go through with your solictor, I can't imagine the stress that has caused you & your person. I wish you both the best in regards to your situation.
I wanted to ask if the solicitor was the same solicitor as the duty solicitor if not, were you able to get a specialised solicitor with legal aid?
I hope you don't mind me asking these questions, thankyou in advance!
Hey Sword
Our first soliciter was the duty, and we thought they were okay at first.
We are legal aid, as we both lost our jobs, (for different reasons)
We have been lucky enough to have been granted legal aid for a new soliciter, we had to go to court for this, but the judge allowed it.
I will DM you x
Im unable to DM you, they're not specialist, as the specialist soliciter in the firm was unavailable for the time being. But we're hopeful our new soliciter is just as good, they're very experienced and seem on the ball.
Our first soliciter was the duty, and we thought they were okay at first.
We are legal aid, as we both lost our jobs, (for different reasons)
We have been lucky enough to have been granted legal aid for a new soliciter, we had to go to court for this, but the judge allowed it.
I will DM you x
Im unable to DM you, they're not specialist, as the specialist soliciter in the firm was unavailable for the time being. But we're hopeful our new soliciter is just as good, they're very experienced and seem on the ball.
We had an awful legal aid solicitor who gave the same advice, and would say things like "it you plead guilty, you'll probably get a suspended sentence so you can go be with your family, if you plead not guilty your going to drag it on the jury will find you guilty amd you'll be looking at a really long time inside" ... we had no communication with him from the day of his second interview to the day of court, they didnt look over the evidence either just red the charge sheet. my person did indeed plead guilty to everything amd only now are we realising be messed up and should have fought it more or we should have looked for a different solicitor. Or we should have just done something other than roll over. But now he's pleaded guilty there's nothing we can do. We discussed going back to court to get things changed and things but from what I've been Googling the chances of that happening are next too none. And it would be a very costly process which we don't have.
Hey marauder
our experiences sound so familiar!
My person was persuaded to plead guilty because the soliciter could not be bothered to do their job!
I will never forget that day in court. I could not believe what was happening.
We are now in an awful situation!
Now we have a new soliciter, I'm hopeful for a better outcome.
All the best xx
our experiences sound so familiar!
My person was persuaded to plead guilty because the soliciter could not be bothered to do their job!
I will never forget that day in court. I could not believe what was happening.
We are now in an awful situation!
Now we have a new soliciter, I'm hopeful for a better outcome.
All the best xx
Yeah we stuck with ours, just because that solicitor said every solicitor would advise us the same. Now we're past sentencing amd it's way to late to get anything changed. Praying for a better outcome for you now you have a new solicitor
My son had 3 charges and was also advised to plead guilty to them all. He too was told that if he pleaded guilty there was a chance he'd get a suspended sentence but if he opted for trial and was found guilty he'd go to prison.
To be honest this is a risk because a sentence of more than two years can't be suspended and to bring it to that you need to plead guilty.
Say the sentence for the charges is usually 3 years pleading guilty brings it to 2 as you get a third off. This can then be potentially suspended. Without the guilty plea it can't as over 2 years.
Say the sentence for the charges is usually 3 years pleading guilty brings it to 2 as you get a third off. This can then be potentially suspended. Without the guilty plea it can't as over 2 years.
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