Hearing evidence
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My person was sentenced the other day and 2 descriptions were read out in court of the evidence they had. They actually said they would have given more but with family present they decided not to.
However, I'm struggling with them. It was horrific. It's all I can hear. I've thought about it repeatedly since and I've cried (not for the first time) about that and the many other children that have been harmed to produce these images and videos.
For nearly 2 years I have struggled but I didn't know what would be included exactly, and now I know I don't know how to move on? It was truly horrific. For context, my person had a LARGE number of category A, B and C images and videos. 1000s upon 1000s of Cat C, 1000s of Cat B and 100s of Cat A. I'm not going to go into specifics exactly as I have a feeling it's going to hit the media. Basically it wasn't a handful. And all I can think about is those kids. Those thousands of children.
I have made the decision to go no contact with my person. It's been a decision that has weighed on me for a long time and I was really just waiting for the sentencing to get some closure, and try to move on, but for various reasons I waited. Now that the sentencing it done with, I am ready and hearing the evidence has just made that more clear. While my family are still supporting my person, I cannot.
I understand that addiction can lead to this road, what I don't understand is genuinely how they can get pleasure from watching or seeing something so horrific. How it can go on for so long and them not be attracted to children? I understand chasing a high and finding more extreme content may have been part of that, being on the dark web etc. what I don't understand is then (sorry to be crude) finding "pleasure" in that.
I'm struggling.
However, I'm struggling with them. It was horrific. It's all I can hear. I've thought about it repeatedly since and I've cried (not for the first time) about that and the many other children that have been harmed to produce these images and videos.
For nearly 2 years I have struggled but I didn't know what would be included exactly, and now I know I don't know how to move on? It was truly horrific. For context, my person had a LARGE number of category A, B and C images and videos. 1000s upon 1000s of Cat C, 1000s of Cat B and 100s of Cat A. I'm not going to go into specifics exactly as I have a feeling it's going to hit the media. Basically it wasn't a handful. And all I can think about is those kids. Those thousands of children.
I have made the decision to go no contact with my person. It's been a decision that has weighed on me for a long time and I was really just waiting for the sentencing to get some closure, and try to move on, but for various reasons I waited. Now that the sentencing it done with, I am ready and hearing the evidence has just made that more clear. While my family are still supporting my person, I cannot.
I understand that addiction can lead to this road, what I don't understand is genuinely how they can get pleasure from watching or seeing something so horrific. How it can go on for so long and them not be attracted to children? I understand chasing a high and finding more extreme content may have been part of that, being on the dark web etc. what I don't understand is then (sorry to be crude) finding "pleasure" in that.
I'm struggling.
I feel the same way, whilst I understand the addiction theory there are plenty of people addicted to porn that don't go down this route, in my opinion you know it's illegal and that's a choice.
I can't imagine watching children being abused and hurt in terrible terrifying ways and I can't ever imagine being sexually interested in children and liking the way they are being treated in those images, wanting more or that seeking more and more out..... I'm in a similar position to you in that the OIC told me they had found a very large catalogue of images/videos across all categories and she went in to detail about what some of these were even though I asked her not too. It was very very difficult, whenever it hink about that conversation with the OIC I start shaking I feel sick it's horrible....
I just cannot understand anyone that got pleasure from that and sought it out and collected it especially as we were parents ourselves...
Anyway I don't have any useful advice and I'm so sorry you had to hear it but you're not alone and your feelings are valid and totally understandable.
I do not believe that 'addiction' causes you to lose all your mental faculties, everybody knows those images are wrong and horrific, and they've saught them out because it gives them a 'kick' how? I think I would never sleep again and would most certainly weep for those poor children after seeing such horrific things.
I can't imagine watching children being abused and hurt in terrible terrifying ways and I can't ever imagine being sexually interested in children and liking the way they are being treated in those images, wanting more or that seeking more and more out..... I'm in a similar position to you in that the OIC told me they had found a very large catalogue of images/videos across all categories and she went in to detail about what some of these were even though I asked her not too. It was very very difficult, whenever it hink about that conversation with the OIC I start shaking I feel sick it's horrible....
I just cannot understand anyone that got pleasure from that and sought it out and collected it especially as we were parents ourselves...
Anyway I don't have any useful advice and I'm so sorry you had to hear it but you're not alone and your feelings are valid and totally understandable.
I do not believe that 'addiction' causes you to lose all your mental faculties, everybody knows those images are wrong and horrific, and they've saught them out because it gives them a 'kick' how? I think I would never sleep again and would most certainly weep for those poor children after seeing such horrific things.
Interacting regularly with people with a variety of addictions through work, I would say the vast majority absolutely understand the potential consequences of their addiction and the damage it can cause, a lot I speak to desperately want to stop but can't break the cycle of dependence even with support. Unfortunately to addicts, the hit is more important than the consequences, it's why people continue to smoke, drink or use drugs etc even though they know it's killing them.
I am in absolutely no way justifying anything, but I think online 'communities' can radically warp people's perceptions of what is justifiable in many arenas. You find yourself in these little online worlds where extremely abnormal and / or morally reprehensible things (sexual behaviours, but also conspiracy theories or trolling or politically or religious motivated violence or diagnosing yourself with random stuff) are viewed as defensible & as you immerse yourself more & more in that world you become more & more warped & twisted in your perceptions.
But I still don't even begin to imagine really quite how people can bear to watch this stuff.
But I still don't even begin to imagine really quite how people can bear to watch this stuff.
You are so brave for going to court for your persons sentencing. I'm months, probably many, if not years away from that stage, but its already on my mind. To hear the actual details of their crimes must be adding trauma to the trauma you already went through, but in a way I feel it's necessary to really understand what they've done. Well, that's what I feel right now. We all know this experience is like a roller coaster and one days emotions are different to the next. Its all too easy to dissociate from what they've done when you've not seen what they've seen, when you're trying to hold onto the hope that you may be able to keep part of what you had together.
Hi, I can only go by my personal experience. I really wish I could turn the clock back and walk away from my person who has recently reoffended and has completely ruined my family.
The first time he was sentenced at Crown Court, my 18 year old came with me. I really regret that. I also didn't know that they would describe in detail two particular images. It's was beyond horrific and so much worse that my mind could ever have imagined. For what it's worth, I think for your own health, you've done the right thing. I wish I'd had the strength to. X
The first time he was sentenced at Crown Court, my 18 year old came with me. I really regret that. I also didn't know that they would describe in detail two particular images. It's was beyond horrific and so much worse that my mind could ever have imagined. For what it's worth, I think for your own health, you've done the right thing. I wish I'd had the strength to. X
My ex was never addicted to porn. He started being sexually attracted to children from puberty. At least he admitted that, in the end. It seems most don't.
LRF, I think I had more compassion for it before I knew how horrific it was if that makes sense. I think I could try to understand the transition from legal to illegal but now I just can't. Now I just don't understand. I feel worse off.
It really is unfathomable the things people can do to such innocent little things for pleasure?! How does that make any sense in any situation? I can't imagine how you must have felt hearing such horrors, I'm so sorry. I know my mind couldn't even dream (nightmare?) Up the things they mentioned in court. I'm so sorry for what they have put you through. The detriment to themselves, those around them, the children abused horrifically and probably repeatedly for their 'kicks' . The damage is incomprehensible.
I'm so sorry. Thank you for you reply.
Sad&Scared, I think you make a good point, there are plenty of people indoctrinated into terrorist groups, extreme violence and movements in communities. What I struggle with is my person was apparently not involved in a community. He downloaded packets off dark web for many, many years and stored them all. No evidence of any communication was found and no distribution either, which I am grateful for but what I fail to see really is the pleasure. The 'kicking understand from an addiction POV, I get chasing a high, but find me a heroin addict that doesn't like heroin? Even a coffee addict that doesn't like coffee, a smoker who doesn't like smoking? Does that exist? How do you get actual pleasure, sit there and find pleasure in not just finding/searching/downloading etc but watching and seeing that pain. I don't know really. I struggle to see it.
Poppet, thank you. I'm not sure brave is the right word really but thank you. I wanted closure, certainty maybe that my person isn't attracted to children as they said they aren't to my family. Some honestly that they only looked at certain things. I didn't get that. I Had some hope of maintaining a relationship with my person nearly 2 years ago. I have tried to understand, I have defended them even against some harsh words from other family members, explaining away with addiction and poor mental health maybe. Maybe denial, hope I suppose. But (and not to scare you here), hearing it myself has been eye opening, and you are correct, traumatic. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy but I will say, it has solidified my decision and I know I have made the right one for me and my family now. I'm so sorry you're going through this. It was 22 long months for us, and it has been such a roller coaster. I hope you can find some peace some day soon.
LittleRobin3, I'm so sorry but yes I think you're right that very few admit their attraction. Thank you for your reply, and I am so sorry you are going through this again. It really is just horrific. There are no words to describe just how bad it is. I'm so sorry.
26a20, I understand addiction, I used to work with addicts myself too. What I am struggling to understand is the pleasure. The so called not attracted to children line. The kick of finding, downloading I understand. I don't understand finding pleasure from such horrors. I just can't. I have tried really hard for a long time now to understand the addiction here and I just don't think I can accept that it is just an addiction and there is no choice. Many addicts get clean by choice, there is a choice involved to not continue and my person did not choose that until they were caught.
It really is unfathomable the things people can do to such innocent little things for pleasure?! How does that make any sense in any situation? I can't imagine how you must have felt hearing such horrors, I'm so sorry. I know my mind couldn't even dream (nightmare?) Up the things they mentioned in court. I'm so sorry for what they have put you through. The detriment to themselves, those around them, the children abused horrifically and probably repeatedly for their 'kicks' . The damage is incomprehensible.
I'm so sorry. Thank you for you reply.
Sad&Scared, I think you make a good point, there are plenty of people indoctrinated into terrorist groups, extreme violence and movements in communities. What I struggle with is my person was apparently not involved in a community. He downloaded packets off dark web for many, many years and stored them all. No evidence of any communication was found and no distribution either, which I am grateful for but what I fail to see really is the pleasure. The 'kicking understand from an addiction POV, I get chasing a high, but find me a heroin addict that doesn't like heroin? Even a coffee addict that doesn't like coffee, a smoker who doesn't like smoking? Does that exist? How do you get actual pleasure, sit there and find pleasure in not just finding/searching/downloading etc but watching and seeing that pain. I don't know really. I struggle to see it.
Poppet, thank you. I'm not sure brave is the right word really but thank you. I wanted closure, certainty maybe that my person isn't attracted to children as they said they aren't to my family. Some honestly that they only looked at certain things. I didn't get that. I Had some hope of maintaining a relationship with my person nearly 2 years ago. I have tried to understand, I have defended them even against some harsh words from other family members, explaining away with addiction and poor mental health maybe. Maybe denial, hope I suppose. But (and not to scare you here), hearing it myself has been eye opening, and you are correct, traumatic. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy but I will say, it has solidified my decision and I know I have made the right one for me and my family now. I'm so sorry you're going through this. It was 22 long months for us, and it has been such a roller coaster. I hope you can find some peace some day soon.
LittleRobin3, I'm so sorry but yes I think you're right that very few admit their attraction. Thank you for your reply, and I am so sorry you are going through this again. It really is just horrific. There are no words to describe just how bad it is. I'm so sorry.
26a20, I understand addiction, I used to work with addicts myself too. What I am struggling to understand is the pleasure. The so called not attracted to children line. The kick of finding, downloading I understand. I don't understand finding pleasure from such horrors. I just can't. I have tried really hard for a long time now to understand the addiction here and I just don't think I can accept that it is just an addiction and there is no choice. Many addicts get clean by choice, there is a choice involved to not continue and my person did not choose that until they were caught.
Wind chimes..... I agree with you 100%. It's disgusting and I'm sick of hearing the EXCUSES cos there aren't any
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I agree with all this - I will never understand, condone or forgive my son for watching this utter fowl material and do what he did.
It's very hard and painful to digest someone (you love) could view and share this horror and on this journey it's a massive part of the shock.
im sure not one of us will condone viewing this material in any way - shape - or form.
It's very hard and painful to digest someone (you love) could view and share this horror and on this journey it's a massive part of the shock.
im sure not one of us will condone viewing this material in any way - shape - or form.
Understanding is not the same thing as condoning. A fair amount has been written about this, particularly the works of Jonah Rimer.
Plenty of people see the online world as not being real and therefore having no real world consequences. Bad behaviour is made worse by the lack of a "disapproving gaze". In other words, without another person there to tell them its wrong, people lose their inhibitions. They tell themselves that what they are doing is just fantasy.
As to the attraction itself, I think the objectification of women that is encouraged by legal porn, simplies carries over to children. The men do not see adult women in porn as real human beings and become desensitised to images of those women being abused. After a long period of exposure to extreme adult content, it probably feels like not much of a leap, to then be watching illegal images of kids.
Plenty of people see the online world as not being real and therefore having no real world consequences. Bad behaviour is made worse by the lack of a "disapproving gaze". In other words, without another person there to tell them its wrong, people lose their inhibitions. They tell themselves that what they are doing is just fantasy.
As to the attraction itself, I think the objectification of women that is encouraged by legal porn, simplies carries over to children. The men do not see adult women in porn as real human beings and become desensitised to images of those women being abused. After a long period of exposure to extreme adult content, it probably feels like not much of a leap, to then be watching illegal images of kids.
Smile through the tears, gosh no I know not a single on of us condones this. I know even in my understanding previously I did not condone, just try to support through. I'm just struggling to see that now. Maybe things are a bit cloudier with the emotions of court being so recent but it is what it is. What our people have done is wrong, whichever road led them there, we know this and I think we all just have to process that and everything that comes with it in our own way. I just feel like I've taken about 4 steps back in my understanding of it and all I feel is anger, maybe worse, hatred. I'm struggling right now to separate my person from what they have done. It has been tremendously traumatic.
My person is a blood relation, my brother, so perhaps that parental unconditional love is maybe not as strong. Having my own daughter I know I would do anything and forgive anything I'm sure. I don't know if the same can be said for my brother, but maybe that is the difference in relationships!
I appreciate your reply, I am so very sorry you are going through this. Knowing how this has impacted my parents, I send you so much love.
My person is a blood relation, my brother, so perhaps that parental unconditional love is maybe not as strong. Having my own daughter I know I would do anything and forgive anything I'm sure. I don't know if the same can be said for my brother, but maybe that is the difference in relationships!
I appreciate your reply, I am so very sorry you are going through this. Knowing how this has impacted my parents, I send you so much love.
edel, of course I understand that. I used to say the same thing. For nearly 2 years I was in the "understand but don't condone" and I know no one on this forum condones in any way shape or form, that's not what I'm saying.
Desensitisation can indeed account for a lot, no doubt about that. Perhaps moving over the edge from legal to illegal and finding these images, maybe finding that teetering edge of legal, chasing a high, perhaps. But can it truly account for desensitising so much to the utter horrors, the young children, the babies? Can a seemingly functioning person, active on all other areas of the internet with no problems, able to distinguish, on say Facebook or Instagram, between what is real and what is not, truly compartmentalise that much to view this content for their own pleasure and honestly, truly say there is no attraction? I question that. So few of us on this forum have a person that has admitted attraction, no wonder I'm sure, the shame and guilt would be abhorrent, but is it not also possible that sometimes that plays its part?
The disapproving gaze is interesting, it can also be likened to the shopping trolley conundrum, no? You don't have to put your trolley back, there's no one really watching if you do or don't, and does anyone really care? Probably not, but many people still do. Many people still choose the better path and return it (even the ones you don't need your pound coin for).
I'm not trying to argue here and say every person in this situation has an attraction, I'm not trying to stop people from understanding or having compassion for their person, I'm simply saying that the absolute extremes, the horrific things I heard in court last week, I don't understand that. How can some people have a porn addiction and not go down this route, and some do? How can some people get to such extremes and be so desensitised and not just watch or view, but then find pleasure from it?
All rhetoric questions obviously, I'm not sure there are answers. That's just where my head is.
Desensitisation can indeed account for a lot, no doubt about that. Perhaps moving over the edge from legal to illegal and finding these images, maybe finding that teetering edge of legal, chasing a high, perhaps. But can it truly account for desensitising so much to the utter horrors, the young children, the babies? Can a seemingly functioning person, active on all other areas of the internet with no problems, able to distinguish, on say Facebook or Instagram, between what is real and what is not, truly compartmentalise that much to view this content for their own pleasure and honestly, truly say there is no attraction? I question that. So few of us on this forum have a person that has admitted attraction, no wonder I'm sure, the shame and guilt would be abhorrent, but is it not also possible that sometimes that plays its part?
The disapproving gaze is interesting, it can also be likened to the shopping trolley conundrum, no? You don't have to put your trolley back, there's no one really watching if you do or don't, and does anyone really care? Probably not, but many people still do. Many people still choose the better path and return it (even the ones you don't need your pound coin for).
I'm not trying to argue here and say every person in this situation has an attraction, I'm not trying to stop people from understanding or having compassion for their person, I'm simply saying that the absolute extremes, the horrific things I heard in court last week, I don't understand that. How can some people have a porn addiction and not go down this route, and some do? How can some people get to such extremes and be so desensitised and not just watch or view, but then find pleasure from it?
All rhetoric questions obviously, I'm not sure there are answers. That's just where my head is.