Being pushed to plead guilty
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So my OH is due his plea hearing in Crown Court. His solicitor has advised that if he pleads guilty it will most likely be community service or suspended sentence. If he pleads not guilty it will go to trial and if it doesn't go well for him he could potentially face 1-4 years in prison.
Despite this, his solicitor has said that he should plead not guilty because he did not ask for the images to be sent to him.
My partner doesn't want to say that he's guilty, but feels backed into a corner as he doesn't want to risk the chance of going to prison.
I imagine others have had the same predicament. I'd like to hear others experience with this and how you made the decision of pleading guilty or not guilty?
It makes me so angry and I can't believe this is how the justice system works. They make you believe you have a chance of defending yourself but put the stakes up so high that you don't really have a choice.
Despite this, his solicitor has said that he should plead not guilty because he did not ask for the images to be sent to him.
My partner doesn't want to say that he's guilty, but feels backed into a corner as he doesn't want to risk the chance of going to prison.
I imagine others have had the same predicament. I'd like to hear others experience with this and how you made the decision of pleading guilty or not guilty?
It makes me so angry and I can't believe this is how the justice system works. They make you believe you have a chance of defending yourself but put the stakes up so high that you don't really have a choice.
So sorry that your OH feels backed into a corner and that messaging from the solicitor appears so conflicting and confusing. It is so difficult for anyone to predict the outcome either way.
The thing with images is that the legal system takes a very black and white approach. If they are found on a device, then whether they were received without asking for them or downloaded intentionally, it is sometimes extremely difficult to prove one or the other and from what I understand, the system will often err on the side of caution and go for the assumption that it was intentional rather than give the benefit of the doubt. Can your OH prove without doubt that he did not ask for the images to be sent to him? If not, then maybe this is why a guilty plea is being positioned...and judges typically take an early guilty plea as a sign of remorse and will discount the sentence by up to 30%.
Of course, he can always plea not guilty and go to trial. The posts on this forum would suggest some trials can take years to take place....and often ss and bail conditions during this time result in a limited life for all concerned anyway. But if your OH is adamant he is innocent then I guess this may be something you are willing to pursue.
The other thing to consider is that pleading guilty early does not automatically mean no custodial sentence. My partner pleaded guilty at the first hearing and was told he would get a suspended sentence by probation and his solicitor but on the day, the judge dismissed the pre-sentencing report and sent him to prison. I understand for this to be rare and most judges will follow the recommendations from probation but I just wanted to share that isn't always the case and the risk of prison can vary by day, jury and judge.
So I guess the sad message here is that there is such little consistent approach to these offences that maybe you/ your OH need to consider what would be best for him/you all, and what you'd be willing to risk/tolerate in terms of possible outcomes.
I'm sorry that I can't be more definitive with my experience! sending you lots of love and strength xx
The thing with images is that the legal system takes a very black and white approach. If they are found on a device, then whether they were received without asking for them or downloaded intentionally, it is sometimes extremely difficult to prove one or the other and from what I understand, the system will often err on the side of caution and go for the assumption that it was intentional rather than give the benefit of the doubt. Can your OH prove without doubt that he did not ask for the images to be sent to him? If not, then maybe this is why a guilty plea is being positioned...and judges typically take an early guilty plea as a sign of remorse and will discount the sentence by up to 30%.
Of course, he can always plea not guilty and go to trial. The posts on this forum would suggest some trials can take years to take place....and often ss and bail conditions during this time result in a limited life for all concerned anyway. But if your OH is adamant he is innocent then I guess this may be something you are willing to pursue.
The other thing to consider is that pleading guilty early does not automatically mean no custodial sentence. My partner pleaded guilty at the first hearing and was told he would get a suspended sentence by probation and his solicitor but on the day, the judge dismissed the pre-sentencing report and sent him to prison. I understand for this to be rare and most judges will follow the recommendations from probation but I just wanted to share that isn't always the case and the risk of prison can vary by day, jury and judge.
So I guess the sad message here is that there is such little consistent approach to these offences that maybe you/ your OH need to consider what would be best for him/you all, and what you'd be willing to risk/tolerate in terms of possible outcomes.
I'm sorry that I can't be more definitive with my experience! sending you lots of love and strength xx
Could I ask what your OH's situation is? My ex claimed to have been sent one unsolicited file which he immediately deleted. Forensics have come back with one deleted file (8 images, 6 Cat C but one Cat A). It's gone to CPS but looks like he will have to weigh up the same pros & cons regarding a guilty / not guilty plea.
We had exactly this with our person.
Initiall plea not guilty, trial set for 18 months later! When the first meeting took place with the barrister he advised carefully regarding the possible outcomes. Continue with the not guilty and potential custodial sentence. Request the plea is changed to guilty and likely to receive a community order or suspended sentence.
Plea changed and due to attend court again for sentencing on Tuesday. Original hearing didn't go ahead in December!
The difficulty of pleading guilty is when completing pre sentencing reports. If you still insist you did not commit the crime we were advised they can send the case back to court.
xx
Initiall plea not guilty, trial set for 18 months later! When the first meeting took place with the barrister he advised carefully regarding the possible outcomes. Continue with the not guilty and potential custodial sentence. Request the plea is changed to guilty and likely to receive a community order or suspended sentence.
Plea changed and due to attend court again for sentencing on Tuesday. Original hearing didn't go ahead in December!
The difficulty of pleading guilty is when completing pre sentencing reports. If you still insist you did not commit the crime we were advised they can send the case back to court.
xx
It's such a difficult decision isn't it. My son's offence was communication and he was given the same information as your person. He pleaded guilty and received a suspended sentence.
My OH pleaded guilty to get the monkey off his back. All the way through he was adamant he would plead not guilty as he didn't know he had downloaded illegal content but the stakes were too high and legal advised to plead guilty for a reduced sentence.
The OIC returned the devices after the case and told me he knew it was accidental and that we should just get on with our lives. Lives that had been ruined by their pursuing a successful charge when the force was in special measures.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing and had we known there are specialist solicitors and forensics for these types of crimes we would have gone down that route. I personally think the police rely on the shame of it being made public make people plead guilty to make it go away.
The OIC returned the devices after the case and told me he knew it was accidental and that we should just get on with our lives. Lives that had been ruined by their pursuing a successful charge when the force was in special measures.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing and had we known there are specialist solicitors and forensics for these types of crimes we would have gone down that route. I personally think the police rely on the shame of it being made public make people plead guilty to make it go away.
The important thing for any jury to consider, is how the images came to be downloaded and what internet searches have the police uncovered, because the jury have to be convinced that the person did not look for images.
The most common scenarios are that the person was searching for legal porn, in which case even searches for words like teen will count against them.
The successful defences I have come across, were ones where no searches for porn were found on the device.
So check with the solicitor what evidence the police have of searches. The other key thing is whether images have been deleted. If they have, then the defence case is much stronger.
The most common scenarios are that the person was searching for legal porn, in which case even searches for words like teen will count against them.
The successful defences I have come across, were ones where no searches for porn were found on the device.
So check with the solicitor what evidence the police have of searches. The other key thing is whether images have been deleted. If they have, then the defence case is much stronger.
Edel that seems so unfair :( it ruins lives for an accident and not just theirs everyone around them.
Do the specialists do a better job are they worth it?
Do the specialists do a better job are they worth it?
Hello,
I couldn't read your post and not reply. I know all cases are different, so what I am about to say might not be relevant to yours, but if there us a small possibility of it helping then it's worth it.
My person was charged with the making if images, he swore blind that he hadn't ever seen then and had no idea how they got on his device. We stayed strong and waited the year that it took us to get to trial, after a year of already waiting for his devices to come back. SS were good at trying to push him into going guilty, again saying things like it's better for it all to be over and also winning at trial is near impossible. We stuck with the not guilty plea though, we knew it was the truth and therefore the right thing to do, we knew the stakes were high, that there was a higher chance of custodial if it went wrong, but this way he could always stay true in saying he hadn't done it, no matter what the outcome.
Two weeks ago my person was acquitted of all charges at trial. It was 100% worth the pain and the wait that we went through to get here.
Some useful pointers that the judge said: With a 'making' charge, the person is only guilty if there is proven intent behind it. A person is not guilty if they went onto a website, that isn't associated to this offense, but the pictures are saved into t for cache in the background. A person cannot be found guilty just through searching 'teen' porn as this could be 18 or 19 yesr olds, therefore legal. Yes it doesn't help, but it's not the decision maker and it is still worth the fight if there is still a lot of factors supporting a not guilty plea. The judge said that a person would have to be searching things are unquestionably linked to illegal age for it to fit this charge. Going back to a website multiple times that could be associated with this is a sign of intent, but a random website that happens to have these pictures behind the scenes isn't.
I have to say though that obviously every judge is different, it might not be the same with everyone and so you need to be 100% certain it is the right thing to do for you if you plan to take the risk.
Good luck, stay strong and take care x
I couldn't read your post and not reply. I know all cases are different, so what I am about to say might not be relevant to yours, but if there us a small possibility of it helping then it's worth it.
My person was charged with the making if images, he swore blind that he hadn't ever seen then and had no idea how they got on his device. We stayed strong and waited the year that it took us to get to trial, after a year of already waiting for his devices to come back. SS were good at trying to push him into going guilty, again saying things like it's better for it all to be over and also winning at trial is near impossible. We stuck with the not guilty plea though, we knew it was the truth and therefore the right thing to do, we knew the stakes were high, that there was a higher chance of custodial if it went wrong, but this way he could always stay true in saying he hadn't done it, no matter what the outcome.
Two weeks ago my person was acquitted of all charges at trial. It was 100% worth the pain and the wait that we went through to get here.
Some useful pointers that the judge said: With a 'making' charge, the person is only guilty if there is proven intent behind it. A person is not guilty if they went onto a website, that isn't associated to this offense, but the pictures are saved into t for cache in the background. A person cannot be found guilty just through searching 'teen' porn as this could be 18 or 19 yesr olds, therefore legal. Yes it doesn't help, but it's not the decision maker and it is still worth the fight if there is still a lot of factors supporting a not guilty plea. The judge said that a person would have to be searching things are unquestionably linked to illegal age for it to fit this charge. Going back to a website multiple times that could be associated with this is a sign of intent, but a random website that happens to have these pictures behind the scenes isn't.
I have to say though that obviously every judge is different, it might not be the same with everyone and so you need to be 100% certain it is the right thing to do for you if you plan to take the risk.
Good luck, stay strong and take care x
Did you have a specialist solicitor or a normal one?
I'm of the opinion the officials:police do their damn best to pressurise you to plead guilty - to me they just rub their hands and think 'job done'.... And solicitors earning a nice fat fee....
I could be wrong - but I hold particular distaste with the police after our experience. Never in our life had any dealings with the police as a family.
Our 'brush' with the system certainly opened our eyes! I just pry they shape up and support my son when release time comes.....
I could be wrong - but I hold particular distaste with the police after our experience. Never in our life had any dealings with the police as a family.
Our 'brush' with the system certainly opened our eyes! I just pry they shape up and support my son when release time comes.....
Lifeisover- We had a specialist solicitor- not that we could afford it. We have a lot of debt to pay back as a result but I have no regrets as it was totally worth it for his freedom and our freedom as s family.
I agree with the others, the police will push and do anything for a conviction, however it does have to go through the courts too and sometimes they just don't have enough, or in our case any, evidence for a conviction.
If there are any other questions you have, I'm happy to help with them.
I agree with the others, the police will push and do anything for a conviction, however it does have to go through the courts too and sometimes they just don't have enough, or in our case any, evidence for a conviction.
If there are any other questions you have, I'm happy to help with them.
My person was backed in to a corner and eventually pled guilty, communication offence, no request to meet, or images sent to or from. There were however 3 images on his phone from 2018 which were immediately deleted (they found them) of extreme pornography of an animal nature. So that was classed as possessing (although again deleted immediately). He got three years, his barrister was shocked, we were all shocked. The barrister kept saying how it would be a suspended sentence etc but the judge on the day clearly was not in a good mood and he got 3 years prison, 15 years shpo and life on register. Don't let him be backed into a corner.