Process
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Hi,
I'm just wondering what the process is following the interview. My son still hasn't had interview and we've been waiting 9 months for devices. Our solicitor (we haven't paid yet just informal conversation) said once we get called in for interview and she knows what they have on devices, she will talk to the officer and try to convince to settle out of court. Well where do CPS come into this? Would the solicitor and OIC decide this together or would it go to CPS with all the details and what our solicitor has countered and then decide?
Sorry I hope it makes sense, so confusing!
I'm just wondering what the process is following the interview. My son still hasn't had interview and we've been waiting 9 months for devices. Our solicitor (we haven't paid yet just informal conversation) said once we get called in for interview and she knows what they have on devices, she will talk to the officer and try to convince to settle out of court. Well where do CPS come into this? Would the solicitor and OIC decide this together or would it go to CPS with all the details and what our solicitor has countered and then decide?
Sorry I hope it makes sense, so confusing!
Hi, if there's anything found on the devices etc, there will be nothing you or the solicitor can do in order to settle out of court, so far as I know but im in England so it might be different where you are. There will be an interview where you'll need a solicitor. Following that, all the information the Police have will be sent to the CPS and they will decide whether it's likely that they'll get a prosecution given the evidence they have or not. This CPS part of this journey for my person took well over a year if I remember correctly.
I may well be missing something here but I'm really quite concerned that a solicitor has said that you could potentially settle out of court. That's a rather strange thing to say. If I were you, I'd seek another solicitor and ask around for advice. X
I may well be missing something here but I'm really quite concerned that a solicitor has said that you could potentially settle out of court. That's a rather strange thing to say. If I were you, I'd seek another solicitor and ask around for advice. X
Hi,
Just jumping in to agree - this isn't the kind of thing that can be settled out of court. If something is found, it goes to the CPS for them to determine the likelihood of prosecution. There's no negotiating to be done, unfortunately. I'd suggest speaking with another solicitor.
Just jumping in to agree - this isn't the kind of thing that can be settled out of court. If something is found, it goes to the CPS for them to determine the likelihood of prosecution. There's no negotiating to be done, unfortunately. I'd suggest speaking with another solicitor.
Some people do get cautions which would count as out of court
Hi Crushed
If your son is under 18 years old the police may speak to the local Youth Justice Service (used to be called youth offending team) for their input on your son's case to see if it can be settled out of court. Maybe this is what your solicitor meant?
If your son is under 18 years old the police may speak to the local Youth Justice Service (used to be called youth offending team) for their input on your son's case to see if it can be settled out of court. Maybe this is what your solicitor meant?
Yes he was only 15 when I had this conversation with the solicitor (16 now) it is also likely he has been abused. We have another case ongoing for step-grandad abusing his 2 younger brothers, in my head this isn't rocket science to make a link. So I think the solicitor wanted to try and put that across to them that it wouldn't be in best public interests to charge, but I couldn't work out of this would be before or after CPS. Or instead of?
Just checked, she called it pre-charge engagement and taking into account external factors.
Just checked, she called it pre-charge engagement and taking into account external factors.
Alison I got the impression the solicitor would talk to the OIC about other information relevant to the case and try and push it in a certain way, does this sounds right? Or do you think she would just add infomration/ factors to send along to CPS?
Sorry I keep thinking of more to say! So if it is a caution is this decided by OIC and avoids going to CPS or would CPS decide this? Also if it is a referral order to youth justice again who would decide this? Thank you so much x
I think generally it is decided with the CPS but it is possible for police to decide to caution I think.
This is a really useful discussion, because it confirms that some solicitors are willing to engage with the police before charges are brought. A lot of them will insist they cannot do a thing until they see charges. Not true.
There are two sets of guidelines that the police use, to decide whether to caution or go to CPS. One is for adults and the other for juveniles.
The one for young people is a lot more flexible. If the images are of a similar age to the person and there is no evidence of coercion, then the police can choose Outcome 21, which means a prosecution is not in the public interest. They can also take into account mental health, autism, and if the person has been abused themselves.
The police can make the decision themselves, without consulting the CPS. Outcome 21 is the most likely result for a juvenile. A caution would be the next step up, then charges. But under 18s very rarely get taken to court.
For adults it is much tougher. The guidelines state that a caution can be considered if there is a small number of Cat C images only. But they must discuss with the CPS first.
A solicitor who is willing to negotiate with police, before charges are brought, can save you a lot of trouble. Sadly it is not very common.
There are two sets of guidelines that the police use, to decide whether to caution or go to CPS. One is for adults and the other for juveniles.
The one for young people is a lot more flexible. If the images are of a similar age to the person and there is no evidence of coercion, then the police can choose Outcome 21, which means a prosecution is not in the public interest. They can also take into account mental health, autism, and if the person has been abused themselves.
The police can make the decision themselves, without consulting the CPS. Outcome 21 is the most likely result for a juvenile. A caution would be the next step up, then charges. But under 18s very rarely get taken to court.
For adults it is much tougher. The guidelines state that a caution can be considered if there is a small number of Cat C images only. But they must discuss with the CPS first.
A solicitor who is willing to negotiate with police, before charges are brought, can save you a lot of trouble. Sadly it is not very common.
Follwing on from Edel's post I would like to share this.
The young person in our family was 16 at the time of the knock. He had never been in any trouble at all (even at school) and would not knowingly want to cause harm to anyone or upset anyone at all. He is on the Autistic Spectrum too, so we were very shocked with the decision that it was in the public's interest to prosecute. The police use some scoring system (Gravity Matrix) and they said they had no alternative but to prosecute.
The young person in our family was 16 at the time of the knock. He had never been in any trouble at all (even at school) and would not knowingly want to cause harm to anyone or upset anyone at all. He is on the Autistic Spectrum too, so we were very shocked with the decision that it was in the public's interest to prosecute. The police use some scoring system (Gravity Matrix) and they said they had no alternative but to prosecute.
Here is a link to the gravity matrix for under 18s
https://www.npcc.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/media/downloads/publications/publications-log/criminal-justice/2023/child-gravity-matrix-v2.2---september-2023.pdf
https://www.npcc.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/media/downloads/publications/publications-log/criminal-justice/2023/child-gravity-matrix-v2.2---september-2023.pdf
Thanks edel - interesting reading and to say it's surprised me is a bit of an understatement!
As the police have to record how they used the matrix to come to their conclusion about an investigation, because of transparency and accountability, and there is mention of mitigation (eg first offence, remorse etc) having to be considered, I wonder how often they actually use these mitigations as my understanding was that all that comes via the judge at sentencing. I thought all the police cared about was getting a conviction. What would be the outcome if we asked to see the paperwork for a case to see whether they have used the matrix fairly I wonder? I would have assumed it's not for public eyes to see if it didn't have that mention of transparency and accountability.
As the police have to record how they used the matrix to come to their conclusion about an investigation, because of transparency and accountability, and there is mention of mitigation (eg first offence, remorse etc) having to be considered, I wonder how often they actually use these mitigations as my understanding was that all that comes via the judge at sentencing. I thought all the police cared about was getting a conviction. What would be the outcome if we asked to see the paperwork for a case to see whether they have used the matrix fairly I wonder? I would have assumed it's not for public eyes to see if it didn't have that mention of transparency and accountability.
rainyday
The only thing you can do is ask. Try going through the solicitor first, then if that does not work, the person can do a Subject Access Request (SAR) to the police force, for all details that relate to their case.
The only thing you can do is ask. Try going through the solicitor first, then if that does not work, the person can do a Subject Access Request (SAR) to the police force, for all details that relate to their case.