Discrimination by association- True or False?
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Dear Lucy Faithful,
I would very much appreciate your clear guidance and advice on a topic which I am sure effects many who access this site.
People who work with children- can they still maintain a relationship/friendship with the Partner and offender who is on the sex offenders register?
It is my understanding that from September 1st 2018 ‘Disqualification by association’ in schools was scrapped, which means schools are no longer required to ask their staff questions about unspent relevant convictions of someone living in their house hold. I assume this covers teachers, nursery workers, school governors, child nurses and social workers. In fact anyone who works with children?
I would actually like to extend this to any profession… is there any job in this country which stops you socialising with a partner of an offender and an offender on the sex offenders register?
The reason I ask this question is because unfortunately I am in this situation due to my husband having a porn addiction. As a result of his addiction over years, his behaviour escalated which resulted in him searching for more extreme material and has led us to where we are today. He is in regular counselling and has already attended your course for those who offend. He is extremely remorseful, disgusted with himself but working hard on his rehabilitation and mental health to improve himself.
Sadly, local news got hold of his story and decided to publish it, resulting in all of our family and friends finding out. Understandably emotions have been high. I would like to add what was published was not 100% accurate and did not contain the whole story or background information.
What has really upset me is friends and family who work with children (some with other non child related jobs also) informing me they can not have a relationship with me as I am choosing to support my husband through his addiction. They inform me they can not associate with me as they believe it would cost them their job and be fired, as it would look like they have condoned my husbands behaviour. As they say ‘naturally why would anyone risk their career for someone else’s actions’.
Is this really true? Is our society still that narrow minded? Can we still be discriminated against because of somebody else’s actions and not our own?
I would like to make this very clear, what my husband has done is not acceptable, and he needs to accept his punishment from the justice system, which he is doing. However he is working hard to address his mistake, and I understand how he got to this dark path through his porn addiction (based on current research available around porn addiction).
Now although I am staying with him and supporting him to get all the necessary help he requires, this DOES NOT mean I condone his behaviours. As I have said Indecent images of Children and child sex abuse is NOT acceptable. Therefore, I want to know why society believe you can not support someone whilst not agreeing with their actions? I would never abuse a child in any shape or form, and think it is unacceptable that you can be tarnished with the same label all because of ‘association’. I have a respectable job and work for the NHS. I believe I am a good citizen.
I would appreciate support on answering some questions so that I can try and maintain my support network through this painful and exhaustive journey. I understand society’s lack of education and awareness of porn addiction, but I want to be able to inform my friends and family of FACTS, not opinions or societal views. Personally, as a partner of an offender, I have been discriminated against and victimised over something I haven’t done, wasn’t aware of and wasn’t involved in. It is very easy for the mental health of a partner to deteriorate during this process, especially when you also lose your support network and have everyone against you. You basically become isolated. Is it really fair that society, friends, family, and services such as social services and police think its acceptable to bully us and make emotional blackmail threats to convince us to leave the offender? All because they deem it as obviously the right thing to do? What even is the right thing to do in this situation? Everyone’s situation is different and one response does not fit all.
Now I have done exhausted research on the internet but cannot find clear direct answers regarding association. Please can you answer the following questions clearly and directly. Atleast then I will have something concrete to show friends and family about being associated with a partner of an offender and an offender who is on the register.
1) Can people in society still continue a friendship/relationship with the partner of an offender regardless of their job. This includes working with children and not working with children.
2) Can people still have a relationship with the offender on the register regardless once again of their job?
3) Specifically teachers and school governors- Can they continue to have a friendship/relationship with the partner and offender?
If you are not able to answer these questions then please guide us to somewhere which can.
If we are going to successfully protect children, then we need to educate and support offenders to ensure they don’t reoffend. Especially for indecent images of children, we need to support people to stop being consumers, making a demand for this disgusting industry. Naturally if the offender loses everything, does nobody think it would be tempting to reoffend? What would even be the incentive to improve yourself when you have lost everything and society aren’t willing to let you forget your mistake? For some this might be their first offence, and they may have only offended by looking at images online, but when you’ve lost everything what is stopping you from moving onto drugs, alcohol or worse suicide?
Thank you in advance for taking the time to read and respond to this discussion.
I would very much appreciate your clear guidance and advice on a topic which I am sure effects many who access this site.
People who work with children- can they still maintain a relationship/friendship with the Partner and offender who is on the sex offenders register?
It is my understanding that from September 1st 2018 ‘Disqualification by association’ in schools was scrapped, which means schools are no longer required to ask their staff questions about unspent relevant convictions of someone living in their house hold. I assume this covers teachers, nursery workers, school governors, child nurses and social workers. In fact anyone who works with children?
I would actually like to extend this to any profession… is there any job in this country which stops you socialising with a partner of an offender and an offender on the sex offenders register?
The reason I ask this question is because unfortunately I am in this situation due to my husband having a porn addiction. As a result of his addiction over years, his behaviour escalated which resulted in him searching for more extreme material and has led us to where we are today. He is in regular counselling and has already attended your course for those who offend. He is extremely remorseful, disgusted with himself but working hard on his rehabilitation and mental health to improve himself.
Sadly, local news got hold of his story and decided to publish it, resulting in all of our family and friends finding out. Understandably emotions have been high. I would like to add what was published was not 100% accurate and did not contain the whole story or background information.
What has really upset me is friends and family who work with children (some with other non child related jobs also) informing me they can not have a relationship with me as I am choosing to support my husband through his addiction. They inform me they can not associate with me as they believe it would cost them their job and be fired, as it would look like they have condoned my husbands behaviour. As they say ‘naturally why would anyone risk their career for someone else’s actions’.
Is this really true? Is our society still that narrow minded? Can we still be discriminated against because of somebody else’s actions and not our own?
I would like to make this very clear, what my husband has done is not acceptable, and he needs to accept his punishment from the justice system, which he is doing. However he is working hard to address his mistake, and I understand how he got to this dark path through his porn addiction (based on current research available around porn addiction).
Now although I am staying with him and supporting him to get all the necessary help he requires, this DOES NOT mean I condone his behaviours. As I have said Indecent images of Children and child sex abuse is NOT acceptable. Therefore, I want to know why society believe you can not support someone whilst not agreeing with their actions? I would never abuse a child in any shape or form, and think it is unacceptable that you can be tarnished with the same label all because of ‘association’. I have a respectable job and work for the NHS. I believe I am a good citizen.
I would appreciate support on answering some questions so that I can try and maintain my support network through this painful and exhaustive journey. I understand society’s lack of education and awareness of porn addiction, but I want to be able to inform my friends and family of FACTS, not opinions or societal views. Personally, as a partner of an offender, I have been discriminated against and victimised over something I haven’t done, wasn’t aware of and wasn’t involved in. It is very easy for the mental health of a partner to deteriorate during this process, especially when you also lose your support network and have everyone against you. You basically become isolated. Is it really fair that society, friends, family, and services such as social services and police think its acceptable to bully us and make emotional blackmail threats to convince us to leave the offender? All because they deem it as obviously the right thing to do? What even is the right thing to do in this situation? Everyone’s situation is different and one response does not fit all.
Now I have done exhausted research on the internet but cannot find clear direct answers regarding association. Please can you answer the following questions clearly and directly. Atleast then I will have something concrete to show friends and family about being associated with a partner of an offender and an offender who is on the register.
1) Can people in society still continue a friendship/relationship with the partner of an offender regardless of their job. This includes working with children and not working with children.
2) Can people still have a relationship with the offender on the register regardless once again of their job?
3) Specifically teachers and school governors- Can they continue to have a friendship/relationship with the partner and offender?
If you are not able to answer these questions then please guide us to somewhere which can.
If we are going to successfully protect children, then we need to educate and support offenders to ensure they don’t reoffend. Especially for indecent images of children, we need to support people to stop being consumers, making a demand for this disgusting industry. Naturally if the offender loses everything, does nobody think it would be tempting to reoffend? What would even be the incentive to improve yourself when you have lost everything and society aren’t willing to let you forget your mistake? For some this might be their first offence, and they may have only offended by looking at images online, but when you’ve lost everything what is stopping you from moving onto drugs, alcohol or worse suicide?
Thank you in advance for taking the time to read and respond to this discussion.
Are there replies to this posti can’t see them?
Hi confused lady,
no there has been no responses yet. Still waiting on Lucy Faithful to respond with hopefully clear and direct answers. That way we have something concrete to show friends and family, which will hopefully aid us in trying to keep a support network. I know people's responses are out of fear of the unknown, but as I said in my post I want to provide friends and family with a FACTS not opinions or societal views.
fingers crossed Lucy faithful reply soon.
no there has been no responses yet. Still waiting on Lucy Faithful to respond with hopefully clear and direct answers. That way we have something concrete to show friends and family, which will hopefully aid us in trying to keep a support network. I know people's responses are out of fear of the unknown, but as I said in my post I want to provide friends and family with a FACTS not opinions or societal views.
fingers crossed Lucy faithful reply soon.
Dear Confused.com,Thank you for your post and questions regarding disqualification by association. It sounds like you are having a very difficult time; I can imagine that losing friends and family as a result of your husband's recent arrest is extremely difficult and I hope that you have found the forum as a helpful source of support during this time. I am sure you can appreciate that queries of this nature are complex and may be more fully answered via the helpline. Therefore, to ensure that you are able to get the most appropriate advice, I would really encourage you to phone the helpline on 0808 1000 900 where you can speak with one of our trained helpline operators, if you have not done so already.The amended regulations state that disqualification by association now only applies to those who work in domestic settings, such as child minding at home. I would strongly recommend reading the government publication on statutory guidance for Disqualification under the Childcare Act 2006 (updated 31 August 2018) where you will be able to find more in-depth information about disqualification by association. This can be accessed at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/disqualification-under-the-childcare-act-2006/disqualification-under-the-childcare-act-2006#disqualification-association. As previously mentioned, please do call the helpline for further guidance as it can sometimes be difficult to discuss such complex issues via the forum.It is ultimately your choice whether or not you choose to support and remain with your husband. It is normal to feel a mixture of emotions towards your husband after something like this and there is no right or wrong answer in terms of your decision to remain with your husband. I do hope that you are able to find a good support network amongst your family and friends.
I hope that this information has been helpful and that you feel able to call the helpline for further support.
I hope that this information has been helpful and that you feel able to call the helpline for further support.
But what about those who don't work in schools but are public facing eg healthcare workers, nurses, physios, social workers, doctors and others similar professions.
where do they stand? It appears they are not automatically disqualified, but what about the organisation, what about reputation of organisations etc.
the rules for schools are so clear, what about everyone else?
where do they stand? It appears they are not automatically disqualified, but what about the organisation, what about reputation of organisations etc.
the rules for schools are so clear, what about everyone else?
Hi
I can't really help a lot only from what I experienced in this situation.
I work for Social Care in Child Protection and my Husband was arrested for indecent images of children.
We had a 22 year old and a 13 year old so Social Care became involved, Social Care in my area treated my Husband with total disgust and when asked one day how he was coping he said he was struggling and he was basically ignored. I know and understand that Social Care are there for the children. However five days after being treated the way he was he took his own life and I feel this was a lot to do with his treatment from the Social Worker.
Anyway although Disqualification through Association is no longer fully supported because I was prepared to wait and see what my Husband was actually accused and or guilty off, I was sticking to his bail conditions and safeguarding my daughter. Social Xare referred me to LADO who held a meeting to decide if I could still remain in my job. The LADO would decide if I had (a) harmed a child (b) placed a child in danger or (c) failed to protect a child. Which o hadn't however this gave Social Care freeway to put anything they wanted in place and if I refused I would have been seen as (c) failing to protect a child. At which point I would
not have been able to continue working with children under 8 in my role.
I can't really help a lot only from what I experienced in this situation.
I work for Social Care in Child Protection and my Husband was arrested for indecent images of children.
We had a 22 year old and a 13 year old so Social Care became involved, Social Care in my area treated my Husband with total disgust and when asked one day how he was coping he said he was struggling and he was basically ignored. I know and understand that Social Care are there for the children. However five days after being treated the way he was he took his own life and I feel this was a lot to do with his treatment from the Social Worker.
Anyway although Disqualification through Association is no longer fully supported because I was prepared to wait and see what my Husband was actually accused and or guilty off, I was sticking to his bail conditions and safeguarding my daughter. Social Xare referred me to LADO who held a meeting to decide if I could still remain in my job. The LADO would decide if I had (a) harmed a child (b) placed a child in danger or (c) failed to protect a child. Which o hadn't however this gave Social Care freeway to put anything they wanted in place and if I refused I would have been seen as (c) failing to protect a child. At which point I would
not have been able to continue working with children under 8 in my role.
Jdx Jdx
What a dreadful tale - I am so sorry that you and your family were dealt with so unhelpfully and with such lack of compassion.
I hope that we can continue to work towards educating society at large to show more understanding and compassion towards everybody caught up in internet child pornography and child abuse.
I have been in this situation twice in my life: I was abused by my father as a child - and my husband has done much to heal my self esteem with patience and love over the years. Now he has been ensnared by internet pornography himself and lost to it for the last couple years. History repeats itself and we are all left puzzled and confused and lost.
I really want to shout out loud to everyone - the whole subject needs to be dragged out into the open so we can begin to understand all the ramifications without pointing fingers and lynch mobs and judgmental attitudes.
What a dreadful tale - I am so sorry that you and your family were dealt with so unhelpfully and with such lack of compassion.
I hope that we can continue to work towards educating society at large to show more understanding and compassion towards everybody caught up in internet child pornography and child abuse.
I have been in this situation twice in my life: I was abused by my father as a child - and my husband has done much to heal my self esteem with patience and love over the years. Now he has been ensnared by internet pornography himself and lost to it for the last couple years. History repeats itself and we are all left puzzled and confused and lost.
I really want to shout out loud to everyone - the whole subject needs to be dragged out into the open so we can begin to understand all the ramifications without pointing fingers and lynch mobs and judgmental attitudes.
Apologies to confused.com for going off topic there.
Jdx Jdx, yep same. I work in healthcare and referred to Lado. My husband and I are not currently having contact. Waiting Lado outcome. It's a horrible position to be in. X